The toxic Pagos bottleneck and how to solve it

[Hanayumi]

I dont think the grindiness should be reduced in anyway, at least not right now, id understand later on sometime before we get the next eureka area. As for light they can easily make most lv40s give a fair amount of light. Griffins, dragons, and chimeras, should all drop about the same amount of light with similar mutate/adapt chances, that would leave more than enough spots for farming groups, other than that id say make some kind of trade in like 1 louhi and 200 pagos crystal for 1 frosted, enough to help those that just want to nm train but still keep the grind.

[Solarra]

Legit no need to nerf light when this is the easiest pre nerf light farm ,
You nerf light people like me who make loads of relics get done faster
And are finished with pagos then less people to help new players and content struggles more.

a) I don't see any problem in making it easier for people to get multiple relics. We are able to play all jobs on one character so I can't see why that would be so terrible. The SB relic isn't some amazing weapon that is going to be super-powerful and prestigious. It isn't going to be BIS for any length of time (if at all), it's basically glam.
and,
b) let's be honest, those of us who are farming light are not going to be helping new players, we will be in the farming spots chaining. This isn't like Anemos where Killing NMs was still worth doing. It was easy to get a lift on a two-seater mount in Anemos because nearly everyone was going to the NMs. Similarly it was easy to get a raise. Pagos does not support that type of play. In fact, by being in the instance but not participating in the fates, we are harming new players by making the NMs harder to beat.

I can understand anyone who has put themselves through the grind feeling a little resentful at the prospect of nerfs, but that was a personal choice. The problem is, Pagos isn't much fun for the majority. Levelling to 30 is painful, getting round the map without teleports or a mount is painful and now farming light as a max-level player is forcing us into competing for mobs. If I wanted a Korean grinder, I'd play one. If I wanted to play a game where every other player was an 'enemy' I had to compete with for resources then there are plenty of them out there. None of that fits well into FFXIV and it is creating a hostile atmosphere.

Pagos is a mess. Keeping it that way because changes might upset a few people who suffered through it as intended, makes no sense to me.

[ShadowHunterrX]

It legit scares me that there are people actually defending pagos' crap gameplay. Just goes to show, rabid Fanboys will love anything that square spits out, no wonder how awful it is. o.0

The only thing scares me are people putting into groups if they give a different opinion. Some of these people are not defending, but they are done with this hell and don't wanna see nerfs after all there hard work is done.

I am not really at the point of light farming at lv35 yet. So I have not a clear view. But maybe it's a idea for the challenge log to add 1 lightbar for every last objective when reaching lv 35. For Anamos when reaching lv20 extra crystals. So in a sense weekly light or crystals. It will not really kill the grind, but now you have a options which you can choose.

- Going for the grind and log lights for faster light.
- Going slow and doing weekly get light casual.
- Going for more weapons in long term.

[Ilan]

then go do it as intended, you can learn to git gud at grinding like you ask others to git gud at the game. Or don't at all.

They designed a certain way, it sucks, but they apparently want to make content for people who like grinding. I don't know why, but at this point, expecting them to radically change any content nay time soon is pointless. So either do it as intended or dont. Part of the old school experience was learning to deal with other people and camping issues, because no matter how big a zone, there always are just a few decent camp spots. Players need to worj it out on their own, devs can't fix people griping or they would have fixed me a long time ago.

"Git gud in grinding" How can someone get good at grinding? Oh wait if he plays a ton of grinders maybe? Been there done that, don't do that anymore for a reason. Its boring like hell and nothing to get good its just a matter of how to stay awake.

And you don't have to express your hatred torwards people, who want that others are able to press more than 3 buttons, in every thread.

[RiyahArp]

But maybe it's a idea for the challenge log to add 1 lightbar for every last objective when reaching lv 35.

It's too late. By the time they can do that, we'll already be in the next patch. By then, there's little point to pagos. At this point, its just accept it or not do it. I don't think they can change it fast enough to get people back in there; the changes to FATES didn't help at all, there's very few 20s in Pagos zones.

[Losara]

The problem I can see is that patch 4.4 will make our Pagos upgrades redundant apart from glamour purposes.

If there is an ideal method for farming light that we haven't found out yet, then SE should pass on the information asap otherwise Pagos will become dead content once people have grinded up to level 35 and possibly made their first i370 Pagos relic.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

The problem is is that these "Exploratory Missions" (EMs), which is all Euerkos is an evolution of, go against some of the core things this game is. From the beginning they have been pushing these grinding thing. When players enter an instance (except pvp for obvious reasons) they normally enter with the understanding they are going to work together with all the other players to accomplish a goal, you know like what multiplayer PvE is supposed to be. EMs on the other hand were designed to have all the player not work together but be in competition for limited resources, but with out the tools in PvP to do anything to other players. We've been getting by with players finding solutions SEs mistakes by finding ways to make the content inclusive for all the players. This has been the essence of Dino Island, the trains. All the players sacrifice their own exp in the build up to work together to spawn and benefit together from the NMs.

Since they have released these they keep taking steps to stop players from working together and pushing the game to be more single player (unsure why they are taking that direction in an MMO but whatever).

So when Pagos, the trains were gone for a bit an the issue became the forefront. The instance is a limited space, for each level there is really only 1 set of mobs for each level and each element. So if multiple groups are out looking for that level and that element, it becomes a problem and a big one. The nature of chaining means these mobs must be monopolized by one or two groups max because there are simply not enough to go around. Also the instance doesn't have any tools to help any group lay claim, the only option open to make use of things that are against the ToA. A group needing mobs already being occupied is to grief those players untl they leave. Trying to get them killed with mobs, 'helping' them with the mobs they are pulling to try to destroy their chain or experience.

People also mentioned that thing developers said about us light farming incorrectly, when we actually discover what they are talking about it's only going to get worse. They are most likely talking about various conditions (things like weather) might make some mobs give us more. If this is true and we discover it will serve to limit the already limited resources further. The level 35 groups will be looking for this most likely one set of mobs that will be optimal at any given time. As this goes on the level 35 will become more and more plentiful and optimal light grinding will be a single set of mobs. It will get ugly.

[ShadowHunterrX]

It's too late. By the time they can do that, we'll already be in the next patch. By then, there's little point to pagos. At this point, its just accept it or not do it. I don't think they can change it fast enough to get people back in there; the changes to FATES didn't help at all, there's very few 20s in Pagos zones.

You are really narrow minded huh. My idea will also be usable for the third relic step. Because the system will be already there and all people will get the benefits of it. They can adjust the rewards on it too make it easier for glamour purpose in the future. Even if Pagos is atleast for *you* too late, others can still enjoy.

There are still alot of 20's in pagos. Hell even in Anamos there are plenty people still fighting monsters.

As someone who played the after the FATE change. It did help and leveling is much faster. Only the light part is suffering because of it. So you are pushed into the mon grind regardless.

[WhyAmIHere]

The problem is is that these "Exploratory Missions" (EMs), which is all Euerkos is an evolution of, go against some of the core things this game is. From the beginning they have been pushing these grinding thing. When players enter an instance (except pvp for obvious reasons) they normally enter with the understanding they are going to work together with all the other players to accomplish a goal, you know like what multiplayer PvE is supposed to be. EMs on the other hand were designed to have all the player not work together but be in competition for limited resources, but with out the tools in PvP to do anything to other players. We've been getting by with players finding solutions SEs mistakes by finding ways to make the content inclusive for all the players. This has been the essence of Dino Island, the trains. All the players sacrifice their own exp in the build up to work together to spawn and benefit together from the NMs.

Since they have released these they keep taking steps to stop players from working together and pushing the game to be more single player (unsure why they are taking that direction in an MMO but whatever).

Because they have a vision for the game, players regardless.

[RiyahArp]

My idea will also be usable for the third relic step.

Mmm, i thought you meant fixing it sooner. But even then, if i were you i'd worry a little more about that third relic step. They can make pagos easier, but no point if logos is worse than pagos. Probably be best just to let pagos people just get a free first relic or two in logos, while subtly dropping any pagos requirement to progress.