We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Dzian]

There will still remain a "best" way to approach a given situation. If you add elemental weaknesses and make Black Mage the most consistent in dealing damage against said weakness, it immediately becomes the de facto caster teams want. If you make a boss weak to Piercing, DRG/BRD/MCH are now slotted as the best. Look at how many people bring 3-4 tanks into Rathalos. Why? They can shrug off his dives far better than DPS jobs can and laugh at the stack mechanic. In that sense, they're the best option, which vaults them into the "default" positions.

This depends on how the game environment works. If you create a rich and diverse environment you make it incredibly difficult to have BIS builds or preferred jobs..

The sheer amount of diversity within the environment counters that a lot. He problem you have is when the environment is not diverse and everything within shares the same traits.

If you look at ffxi many people know many of the jobs were considered undesirable even some of the particularly strong ones. The reason for this had very little to do with the jobs themselves and everything to do with the environment of the game world. Pets fed mobs to which made fights harder than they needed to be. That is the main reason pet classes were shunned.

90% of stuff above 50 shared the same weaknesses so if you didn't do piercing damage you weren't desirable. Or in the case of Dragoon. You did do piercing damage which was perfect for most mobs. But you had a pet so um no thankss.

Magic was the same especially when so many higher end mobs would silence you every 3 seconds or throw your magic back in your face.... Yeah ok no magic jobs.. it wasn't that jobs were broken or weak it was the environment was heavily biased towards a particular damage type.

If you make variednand complex environments best jobs or best builds become virtually impossible. One of the simpler ways to look at This is with things like first person shooters. If your in big open areas a sniper rifle build might be awesome and have a mahor advantage over someone with a shotgun Yet in an enclised building or such that same sniper build is now at a disadvantage over a shotgun build.

The builds don't change only the environment does. And a good environment makes it impossible to be the best everywhere.

[RiyahArp]

That is the main reason pet classes were shunned.

DRG was shunned only because SE made the wyvern a two hour ability at first. Bad design. So one death and you lost a large chunk of dps for two hours. They fixed it by making it a 30 min resummon. BST was shunned because charming pets and using them in battle was a big exp penalty. If you used jug pets they were okay. PUP was just very complex, but i wouldn't say it was shunned.

BST actually was one of the best MMO experiences of my life. Learning to solo as a classic enchanter charm class is gameplay that's been lost, sadly, but it took a lot of skill.

[Mahrze]

The builds don't change only the environment does. And a good environment makes it impossible to be the best everywhere.

This isn't exactly true. While the environment in FFXIV is very 1-layer. Even a complex set of layered environs will have a job or jobs that will be the "jacks" after a while. Builds are as important as the environs since the environs make the build, and said build works the environs.

[Lambdafish]

Moro, in every MMO I have ever played including being a co-leader of one of the largest raiding guilds in WoW's hayday from 2004 to 2010 on my server...I never needed to get carried once. But if it makes you feel better to consider me a individual who isn't willing to earn my rewards strictly on my critique on how FF14 favors the minority in this game over the rest of the player base...have at it! Very sad though in attempt to put down my two cents into this conversation.

Doesn't that make you a raider? Are you secretly killing the game on our behalf? Or are you just mistaking raiders for another group?

[HyoMinPark]

Moro, in every MMO I have ever played including being a co-leader of one of the largest raiding guilds in WoW's hayday from 2004 to 2010 on my server...I never needed to get carried once. But if it makes you feel better to consider me a individual who isn't willing to earn my rewards strictly on my critique on how FF14 favors the minority in this game over the rest of the player base...have at it! Very sad though in attempt to put down my two cents into this conversation.

I always find it hilarious when people say this game caters to raiders. If that were the case, why has our content (Savage) gotten progressively easier to allow for more accessibility, and why was our other content (Ultimate) canceled for 4.51? If you think FFXIV caters to the raiders, you must be playing this game in an alternate dimension. Because it doesn't.

As for "killing this game", the game isn't dying. But it is certainly becoming more and more stale with its staggered releases, same ol' formula after five years, and centerpiece content seeming to always be a disappointment. That's hardly the fault of the raiders, though. Unless you want to try to blame them for something like the state of Pagos.

[Miste]

But if it makes you feel better to consider me a individual who isn't willing to earn my rewards strictly on my critique on how FF14 favors the minority in this game over the rest of the player base...have at it! Very sad though in attempt to put down my two cents into this conversation.

I mean, it made you feel better to generalize an entire subset of the community and make an outrageous claim about them killing the game?

Now you suddenly can't handle someone questioning your logic about it?

She didn't say you don't earn your rewards, she was just wondering how often raiders end up helping people who 'irrationally hate raiders' clear content by carrying. This doesn't necessarily include you, and she didn't single you out.

It is funny how people can blame subsets of the community for killing the game when we have no power over said game. Last time I checked regular players, raider or not, are not SE employees nor do they work at SE or have any control over what SE does with FFXIV.

But I guess people just need someone to blame for whatever doesn't go exactly their way, even if who they blame literally has no power to do the thing they are being accused of /shrug.

This whole "raiders stole my bike and kicked my dog" mentality is just getting sad. If you hate a painting in an art gallery then you can go and yell at the painter if you feel so inclined, not the random guy standing by said painting and just observing the finished product; after all he didn't create what you are so angry about.

Also it sounds like you aren't even playing FFXIV, because 95% of the content in this game is casual content.

[Ilan]

I always find it hilarious when people say this game caters to raiders. If that were the case, why has our content (Savage) gotten progressively easier to allow for more accessibility, and why was our other content (Ultimate) canceled for 4.51? If you think FFXIV caters to the raiders, you must be playing this game in an alternate dimension. Because it doesn't.

As for "killing this game", the game isn't dying. But it is certainly becoming more and more stale with its staggered releases, same ol' formula after five years, and centerpiece content seeming to always be a disappointment. That's hardly the fault of the raiders, though. Unless you want to try to blame them for something like the state of Pagos.

You know people who hate raiding and raiders will not listen to reasonable arguments, right?

The only group of players who tend to destroy games are the ones who refuse to learn to play their classes and the mechanics right and always complain until everything gets nerfed into the ground.

[Bahati]

I mean, it made you feel better to generalize an entire subset of the community and make an outrageous claim about them killing the game?

Now you suddenly can't handle someone questioning your logic about it?

She didn't say you don't earn your rewards, she was just wondering how often raiders end up helping people who 'irrationally hate raiders' clear content by carrying. This doesn't necessarily include you, and she didn't single you out.

It is funny how people can blame subsets of the community for killing the game when we have no power over said game. Last time I checked regular players, raider or not, are not SE employees nor do they work at SE or have any control over what SE does with FFXIV.

But I guess people just need someone to blame for whatever doesn't go exactly their way, even if who they blame literally has no power to do the thing they are being accused of /shrug.

This whole "raiders stole my bike and kicked my dog" mentality is just getting sad. If you hate a painting in an art gallery then you can go and yell at the painter if you feel so inclined, not the random guy standing by said painting and just observing the finished product; after all he didn't create what you are so angry about.

Also it sounds like you aren't even playing FFXIV, because 95% of the content in this game is casual content.

I understand the bitterness towards raiders regarding their complaining about Diadem in 3.1 RNG drop gear being as good as their savage gear. Something was literally taken away from the entire community directly because of the complaining of the "raid community" so yes, raiders do have an impact on the community despite not being on SE's payroll.

[Dualgunner]

I understand the bitterness towards raiders regarding their complaining about Diadem in 3.1 RNG drop gear being as good as their savage gear. Something was literally taken away from the entire community directly because of the complaining of the "raid community" so yes, raiders do have an impact on the community despite not being on SE's payroll.

Okay, I'll bite. What was taken away, here? Diadem? We still have Eureka. Non-savage ways to reach i370? Tomes still exist, and Anemos gave i350 gear with five open materia slots which put them in the running easily for some non-savage BiS. I think the reason Pagos has no gear is just cuz devs don't want to design AF gear every other patch.

[Bahati]

Okay, I'll bite. What was taken away, here? Diadem? We still have Eureka. Non-savage ways to reach i370? Tomes still exist, and Anemos gave i350 gear with five open materia slots which put them in the running easily for some non-savage BiS. I think the reason Pagos has no gear is just cuz devs don't want to design AF gear every other patch.

In this instance the opportunity for casual players to have the same high ilvl as raiders simultaneously was taken away. This random pink gear dropped from this particular period of Diadem also had random stats that in some cases made them better than the current savage gear. The raiding community was quite vocal about their upset that casual, non-raiding members would have any chance (RNG or not) to have gear just as good as their savage clear gear. These items were removed entirely (unless you were lucky enough to get one before the patch out) to appease the raiding community.

I'm not arguing if this is right or wrong. I'm simply saying the raiding community has affected the state of the game and everyone's experience in this case.