White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

[Duskane]

Terms of Service =/= Promises

But is there a post that says they promise not to hand out the white raven earrings.

[Noodle_Trinidad]

But is there a post that says they promise not to hand out the white raven earrings.

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If you like you can further click on each of those individual quotes in that post and see the context behind it.

TLDR Version:
Yoshida and Gildrein post info about the Seventh Umbral Era items being made exclusive to those who experience with Yoshi further trying to get people to play with a 10 day "Return to Eorzea" Campaign. Later on a player in interest of these quotes ask for confirmation that if the White Ravens fall under said category of Seventh Umbral Era items that will never be released again in the ARR version of the game aka today's FFXIV. Bayohne's quote ends it stating that the White Ravens would become unobtainable in ARR.

They're not different entities at all. A company can and will change their stance on various issues over time. They're not obligated to hold the same opinions in the present day that they did six years ago. They're a business. They're not your friends or loved ones. It isn't a 'betrayal' for them to change their stance on something.

They are entirely different entities. The point of "Terms of Service" is to set a grounds for what is acceptable for both parties involved in said product. They are made to make sure players do not use their licensed products in a manner that infringes on their ownership while on top letting you know what is and isn't acceptable in the license associate with the purchase of the game. Essentially they're generally made to make sure you can't take them to court over something that might result in your ban or the possible refund of the product, hell it even has a list of what to check before you even consider asking SE for a full refund. A promise is just a trust-filled assurance between two or more parties that they'll fulfill or uphold a certain task.

We could argue all day about them being associated in some format but at the end of the day it is clear as day that the 1.0 Forum Archives proves that there was a set promise and confirmation of what is covered by the promise itself. Still I guess you're right in a sense, they are indeed free to change their stances on stuff such as promises and yes you are right they are not our friends or our loved ones but I think its easy enough to see how valuable the relationship between Devs and their community is and anything that can risk any good ties is overall damaging for the game at large, if one is to expect respect one must give it in return. Why do you think Digital Extremes has such a good reputation in today's modern gaming stage?

Also I think I keep making it clear that I don't care if the items were brought back themselves in that sense, exclusive stuff is generally annoying in my own opinion but I am someone who upholds the moral of keeping promises. If there wasn't any tangible evidence that the earrings were promised to be kept locked for 1.0 players who completed the task then the only thing I would be arguing at the moment is the lackluster revival they gave them because lets be honest it'd be nice to have an actual homage to the fight before the Fall of Dalamud itself.

[MomomiMomi]

TLDR Version:
Yoshida and Gildrein post info about the Seventh Umbral Era items being made exclusive to those who experience with Yoshi further trying to get people to play with a 10 day "Return to Eorzea" Campaign. Later on a player in interest of these quotes ask for confirmation that if the White Ravens fall under said category of Seventh Umbral Era items that will never be released again in the ARR version of the game aka today's FFXIV. Bayohne's quote ends it by indeed confirming that yes the Earrings will never be released in ARR.

That's a very misleading paraphrase. They didn't said they would never be released again. They said they would become unobtainable. And that was indeed true for 5 years.

[Noodle_Trinidad]

That's a very misleading paraphrase. They didn't said they would never be released again. They said they would become unobtainable. And that was indeed true for 5 years.

Fair enough, maybe my TLDR needs a revision but lets say we change it to unobtainable. By the mere fact that they are obtainable at the moment and will probably be obtainable once again thru the means of the MogShop given their trend with Seasonal Glamours, which they are now part of, means the promise has been broken none the less. Regardless of the time that has passed it can already be inferred that they were never going to be back regardless, the edit doesn't help the case at all.

Still once again i must reiterate, I don't care that they came back in a sense. I mostly cared that they were brought back in such a mediocre and insulting manner thru the FATE spam, honestly if they wanted to make an homage to the Mob Spam of GMs could have just let your GMs go ham and have fun with the community instead and have made an actual Nael fight even if it was a joke considering what we're used to now. My main issue now is that the promise has come to light with confirmation that they were indeed promised to be unobtainable come ARR and I don't care who the Company is or if it's my favorite game no Dev Team should ever be allowed to casually break a promise even if its in the pursuit of glamour. The one thing that will hurt us more than anything is to never uphold them to a proper standard.

[MomomiMomi]

Fair enough, maybe my TLDR needs a revision but lets say we change it to unobtainable. By the mere fact that they are obtainable at the moment and will probably be obtainable once again thru the means of the MogShop given their trend with Seasonal Glamours, which they are now part of, means the promise has been broken none the less. Regardless of the time that has passed it can already be inferred that they were never going to be back regardless, the edit doesn't help the case at all.

I honestly don't read those quotes as a promise of any kind. They were stating, for the benefit of the players, that they would no longer be obtainable in ARR. I see it more as a warning, not a promise. "This isn't going to be obtainable so if you want them you should get them now."

And I see bringing them back in the same way. For the benefit of the players.


Just to be clear, I'm not saying this to defend them. I'll jump at any opportunity to attack this game's staff, I am not very happy with them. I just am not interpreting things the same way you are.

[Noodle_Trinidad]

I honestly don't read those quotes as a promise of any kind. They were stating, for the benefit of the players, that they would no longer be obtainable in ARR. I see it more as a warning, not a promise. "This isn't going to be obtainable so if you want them you should get them now."

And I see bringing them back in the same way. For the benefit of the players.


Just to be clear, I'm not saying this to defend them. I'll jump at any opportunity to attack this game's staff, I am not very happy with them. I just am not interpreting things the same way you are.

I will say fair enough, I do not believe in attacking someone for an opinion but I will debate most things if the conversation keeps going. Still your reasoning is at least more acceptable, in my opinion, since it's more an argument of interpretation.

Also on the note of bringing them back I will have to state my displeasure at how they were brought back. FATE spam is a horrible way to bring back such a coveted item. Could have made the Nael fight and kept it in permanently only giving the White Raven earrings every time the Rising comes around like that others could experience the fight and have a reason to celebrate it every Rising event.

[Lambdafish]

That's a very misleading paraphrase. They didn't said they would never be released again. They said they would become unobtainable. And that was indeed true for 5 years.

Ok, but it's not the only instance of broken promises. The Devs also said in the EU fan Fest keynote of 2014 that the mog station would never have exclusive items and would only be used sparingly. If the white ravens earrings appear on there (likely now that it's a seasonal reward), you can see how it's difficult to trust anything they say.

[LyraKuroneko]

Ok, but it's not the only instance of broken promises. The Devs also said in the EU fan Fest keynote of 2014 that the mog station would never have exclusive items and would only be used sparingly. If the white ravens earrings appear on there (likely now that it's a seasonal reward), you can see how it's difficult to trust anything they say.

The thing is, they never promise anything, they say things, they're not set in stone as we can see. It's not like they make a contract either each time they speak.
It's sure is a bother how each time it's against what we want. But it's a company, I never saw one that would keep their word against their own profit.

[Lambdafish]

The thing is, they never promise anything, they say things, they're not set in stone as we can see. It's not like they make a contract either each time they speak.
It's sure is a bother how each time it's against what we want. But it's a company, I never saw one that would keep their word against their own profit.

If the use of the word promise is a bit much, how about advertise? SE can do whatever they like because ToS says they can, but if you advertise something one way, and then go back on it it does break trust. The problem in this case is that trust has been broken so many times that people have come to expect and anticipate it.

I really don't understand how there is any kind of defence, it's a constant topic, whether it be mog station, companion app, advertised content, exclusive items, even deadlines, the XIV team has an extremely poor track record of keeping to their word, and it makes looking to the future a problematic thing for players, because anything the Devs say is hard to believe, and many people have become sceptical and jaded towards any new promises and advertisements that are made.

When the very players who support your product don't trust you, then your product is going to become unstable