When should I drop tank stance?

[Lynesse]

Well, anecdotes and conjecture aside, I can report that the 270 STR accessories do, in fact, help a ton.

Edit: I melded VIT to them.

Tank stats are so busted it's actually funny.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Well, anecdotes and conjecture aside, I can report that the 270 STR accessories do, in fact, help a ton.

Edit: I melded VIT to them.

Tank stats are so busted it's actually funny.

Yeah they do. When you're missing the best weapon for your range, they help with threat a ton.
But if your armor is slacking too much, you may want some VIT accessories to help pad out your survival, which is a bit tricky.

I tend to level up with 1-2 STR accessories until Lv70.

[Aana]

We agree, then.

What you suggest is unreasonable, and your argument is built on assumptions. Aana's initial post said: "assuming you are similar[ly] gear[ed] to your party..." Aana assumed wrong.

RDM can front-load around one thousand potency before Savage Blade comes out. If the RDM outgears you and doesn't use Diversion, Flash is just the easiest answer. I use RDM as an example because it's the class I know, but any class with stacks has this problem because we tend to go through dungeons swiftly. It's just as problematic with Samurai and Monks.

The entire point of stating "Assuming X and Y factors then Z is true" is to state exactly that. If your gear and level are the same as your party, then Shield oath+Lob+Flash+2halones is way overkill. If X and Y are not true then Z statement may not be true. If you are NOT equal to your party members then my statement doesnt apply to you. Dont try to read more into it than what is there.

You did not actually specify what situation you were using, just "dungeons" (level synch or not, geared or not, Pre 70 or not, party status) So dont get uppity when someone makes assumptions to a vague comment trying to clarify. If those assumptions arent true all you have to say is "I was speaking about leveling pre 70 with level synched party memebers while I am not". I did not make some sweeping statement that applies to all tanks all the time. It was a specific (though common) set of circumstances. If you are not equal to your party you obviously have to compensate. The advice is still correct.

[Lynesse]

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Your mistake was in telling me I was wrong.

What you said wasn't wrong. Your approach was.

[whiskeybravo]

Your mistake was in telling me I was wrong.

What you said wasn't wrong. Your approach was.

It's easy to forget about the 270 str accessories when you've been level 70 for nearly a year already. Other than the occasional complaint thread I myself entirely forgot about them being incredibly helpful for tanks still leveling from 60-70.

You should still definitely take the flash out of your opener for single targets, though. :P

[Chrono_Rising]

Well, anecdotes and conjecture aside, I can report that the 270 STR accessories do, in fact, help a ton.

Edit: I melded VIT to them.

Tank stats are so busted it's actually funny.

You can also middle ground this and use vit accessories with strength melds, instead of slaying accessories with vit melds. Gives you a happy medium of HP + some of the strength you are missing.

While probably fine while leveling, the extra vit may be helpful when hitting end game dungeons (though people also did those in slaying).

Tanking stats really are in a silly place at the moment, but it doesn't seem as though we are getting a healer type adjustment, meshing our main stat and damage stat, for some time.

[Elkanah]

This keeps me marginally ahead of my WHM and DPS who front-load their damage and refuse to use Diversion. The Flash is for certain people/classes, like RDMs who Fleche + Contra Sixte immediately, or who have built up enough mana in the previous pull to open with their melee combo -> Fleche + Contra Sixte. The Flash will be especially necessary when I start getting RDMs with Verflare.

As someone who mains all tanks and RDM/BLM exclusively, I've never needed to use flash in my rotation for almost any situation (except add pulls) against a RDM or MNK/SAM in the beginning. Shield lob > Circle of Scorn and 1 smack of Rage of Halone before you start would be easily more than enough on a single target. For very obvious reasons, flash for packs (understandable).

[Aana]

Your mistake was in telling me I was wrong.

What you said wasn't wrong. Your approach was.

There is so much more to tanking than just an opener. Loosing hate through an extended many minute fight can be for a wide variety of reasons that have nothing to do with using an unnecessary flash. You struggling with threat doesnt make your suboptimal opener right. It more likely points to some other fundamental problem in play. Uptime, rotation, adequate gear, knowledge of how the skills work and when to use them. The bottom line remains, if a tank has similar gear to the party they have the capability to keep threat.

Tanks (played well) could keep hate when the tank stance enmity modifier was 2 and tank stance reduced pld damage by 20% and warrior by 25%. The modifier is now 2.7 and the damage penalty has been reduced to 15% and 20% respectively. Threat generation on individual actions has been balloned. Combo finishers used to be 5 (halone) and 5.5 (BB). Now they are 7x. Flash/Overpower/Unleash have all been doubled recently and that was after previous buffs. Flash for example used to be 450 enmity. Now its 1200. The list goes on and on. Enmity has been buffed exponentially from its origins years ago.

So please, instead of attacking everyone that points to suboptimal play for being 'wrong' check your own play. Enmity for tanks has been skyrocketing upward for years. In the old days a Pld in shield oath using flash did 450*.8*2 or 720 enmity. That same action today creates 2754. Literally every action that generates additional enmity has been buffed at some point or multiple times. Please consider the possibility that you could be doing something wrong before jumping on anyone correcting you on how hard or easy it is to maintain enmity.

Rdm can create a whole THOUSAND potency before savage? Shield lob creates 1947 potency while in shield oath as their 1st action. Even more in fight or flight. Tanks have all the enmity tools they need to function.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Rdm can create a whole THOUSAND potency before savage? Shield lob creates 1947 potency while in shield oath as their 1st action. Even more in fight or flight. Tanks have all the enmity tools they need to function.

Pretty sure 100 potency on a DPS and 100 potency on a tank wouldnt be equal, since potency is a modifier.
BUT i also know the difference in damage of weapons and the like arent that far behind anyways. (if behind at all in some cases)

Some of the numbers I think you posted werent accurate, but I cant seem to find the original list i saw to back up that claim.

But yeah, I agree with the final message though, tanks currently do have the tools needed.
The question is, is it worth lowering the total amount of DPS done to a boss, just because diversion/lucid are too annoying to use/watch?
In casual content, its like 1% damage lost, or less, for pressing a button every so often.

[Lynesse]

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I can now, thanks to Aodhan!

I knew there wasn't much I was doing wrong -- it's stats. They broke them. And many of the tanks I'm getting are probably unaware of this, too, because they're also having problems.

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This is also really good advice! This would be safer for solo queuing tanks.

I'm used to grabbing whatever and blasting through levels because you would think the gear you're given would be enough.

There was a misunderstanding in the beginning, but what we've discussed here has been critical, and the guides I've read have barely touched on the subject.