We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Dualgunner]

There was no dire situation or world at risk, it really was pretty much just Lyse asking us to help liberate Ala Mhigo because she wanted to do it, and we accepted. It was entirely personal for her. Otherwise, we the WoL, had no real reason to be there. And then "Maybe we should liberate Doma too!" happened and here we are.

Are you forgetting Ilberd's framing the Alliance for attacking Baelsar's wall? If Eorzea didn't push on from there, they would have gotten retaliation from Garlemald for a dead man's actions of summoning a nearly Bahamut-tier primal on their doorstep.

[Zojha]

If Eorzea didn't push on from there, they would have gotten retaliation from Garlemald for a dead man's actions of summoning a nearly Bahamut-tier primal on their doorstep.

They got retaliation anyway. Successful, too. Then, after a contrived saturday morning plot point that put the situation on the mainland in stasis, we spent a couple ingame months overseas and only "then" made any real push anywhere, while the baddies were doing nothing because reasons.

The whole thing was painfully forced to the point that Zenos dramatically challenging the champion of Eorzea to a Blitzball tournament to decide the fate of the world and us going to Doma to recruit kickers would've made just as much sense. I don't see why I shouldn't have just gone fishing, they'd just have had to make up some random other random reason why we aren't overrun.

[Edax]

Are you forgetting Ilberd's framing the Alliance for attacking Baelsar's wall? If Eorzea didn't push on from there, they would have gotten retaliation from Garlemald for a dead man's actions of summoning a nearly Bahamut-tier primal on their doorstep.

The Empire is just the worst part of the FFXIV story. Generic evil bad guys with super tech. They conquer Ala Mhigo, but why? They killed so many people and ground the local economy into nothing. The salt mines and quarries remain unworked and the Empire has depopulated the place to the point it can't even meet basic resources quotas as the locals are starving. And they only respond to this by beating their own workforce out of commission. It's the exact same thing with Doma. Their chief exports seem to be rice and fish. But they've killed and conscripted so many farmers that they the locals can barely feed themselves and the Viceroy they love so much just goes off the purge the citizens of a fishing village for no reason. What is the Empire getting out of Doma? Why would they even want to keep the Viceroy that ran that country into the ground? Why did they even conquer it in the first place if it's just going to drain a ton of materials, manpower and resources to hold it for absolutely no benefit? (While the British Empire has invaded most of the countries of the world, they did so over rational reasons like money and resources, the Garleans don't even basic motivations like that). Doma also exported paper but the Empire destroyed the paper mills and also took all of Doma's good tools so that it can't efficiently harvest or build. What's the point of that? Are Doma tools really that much better than Garlean tools? Do the Garleans not understand how Empires work?

Even the Empire managed to tarnish Heavensward. They have almost no reason to be involved in the story, and Ysayle, whose story is deeply tied into the fabric of the Dragonsong War story, gets randomly ganked by an Imperial Battleship that shows up out of nowhere. What a terrible end to her story. The Empire is just terribly written bad guys that just kill for no reason. I can only hope these idiots destroy themselves before the next Expansion starts via a Chernobyl-like event so they can stop bring down the story with their terrible writing and motivations.

[KisaiTenshi]

The Empire is just the worst part of the FFXIV story. Generic evil bad guys with super tech.

You may want to read the history books... or simply look at the political situation in many countries right now.

This usually starts with the Government annexing a neighboring piece of land, then...

A) Government declares some minority group as being illegal and less-than human

B) Government makes policies specifically to dehumanize them, turns a blind eye to any genocide under their policies.

C) Government strips the minority group of their resources.

D) Everyone is surprisingly okay with this until the Government falls, and suddenly it's everyone for themselves. If you're rich, you're likely going to become a victim, and that's why rich people flee countries when they become unstable, taking most of the countries wealth with them.

This is everything the Garleans have done and we're now on the way to D with them.

[Edax]

You may want to read the history books... or simply look at the political situation in many countries right now.

This usually starts with the Government annexing a neighboring piece of land, then...

A) Government declares some minority group as being illegal and less-than human

B) Government makes policies specifically to dehumanize them, turns a blind eye to any genocide under their policies.

C) Government strips the minority group of their resources.

D) Everyone is surprisingly okay with this until the Government falls, and suddenly it's everyone for themselves. If you're rich, you're likely going to become a victim, and that's why rich people flee countries when they become unstable, taking most of the countries wealth with them.

This is everything the Garleans have done and we're now on the way to D with them.

A. The Garleans invade a country and mistreat the Majority group. Treat them less than human. The obsession of "purity" of the Garleans that were driven into a small country would make them the minority in every country but their own.
B. The Garleans are from a small country and are obsessed with purity. Their genocide depopulates their own Empire until there are barely enough to run basic services. They don't even bother protecting the people that have sworn loyalty to them either.
C. The Garleans aren't stripping resources from the Majority. They just destroy the resource output of the conquered until everyone is starving.
D. Who would be okay with this? And who would get rich under this system? Collaborators seemingly get no protection and the GDP of these occupied territories has to be abysmally small. And when was the last time saw a loyal Garlean actually do any work besides killing somebody or standing around waiting to be killed?

Perhaps you should read a history book. Empires are built on greed but the Garleans are not greedy. They see a farm, they torture and conscript the farmers until everyone is starving. They see a fishing village, they murder the fisherman. They see a quarry and beat and starve the workers. They see a saltmine and drive the people off so that the wildlife reclaims it. They see a paper mill and they destroy it and leave it in ruins. The Garleans do not profit from war, they aren't motivated by it and every action they take says otherwise. Their occupations makes the lands worthless and they must be spending fortunes building the towers, artillery pieces, mecha, shield generators and bases too. This "Empire" should have crumbled the moment the Garleans left Garlemald.
The sinews of war are infinite money, but the Garleans sidestep this because they are one dimensional villains. We learn rebuilding the Doman enclave that they stole all the good tools from the Domans. But we already know the Garleans and their magi-tech don't need medieval tools, they probably just chucked them in the ocean because that was the "cartoonishly evil" thing to do.

[Sigma-Astra]

And when was the last time saw a loyal Garlean actually do any work besides killing somebody or standing around waiting to be killed?

Well, there's Lucia, Cid, and Nero for one.

[Edax]

Well, there's Lucia, Cid, and Nero for one.

They don't seem terribly loyal to Garlemald, but I suppose you could say they are loyal outside of Garemald.

[Sigma-Astra]

They don't seem terribly loyal to Garlemald, but I suppose you could say they are loyal outside of Garemald.

I'd like to believe that somewhere along the lines they are still loyal towards their birth country and that will probably never change, they just don't agree with their actions at the current present.

One can still remain loyal towards their own country, yet still disagree and propose opposition against their ways simply because they feel it's doing more harm than good, which displays self pride and concern for their fellow countrymen even if they're supporting the people that their own country dislikes at the same time.

Basically, it's a "for the greater good" type scenario.

[KisaiTenshi]

A. The Garleans invade a country and mistreat the Majority group. Treat them less than human. The obsession of "purity" of the Garleans that were driven into a small country would make them the minority in every country but their own.
B. The Garleans are from a small country and are obsessed with purity. Their genocide depopulates their own Empire until there are barely enough to run basic services. They don't even bother protecting the people that have sworn loyalty to them either.
C. The Garleans aren't stripping resources from the Majority. They just destroy the resource output of the conquered until everyone is starving.
D. Who would be okay with this? And who would get rich under this system? Collaborators seemingly get no protection and the GDP of these occupied territories has to be abysmally small. And when was the last time saw a loyal Garlean actually do any work besides killing somebody or standing around waiting to be killed?

Perhaps you should read a history book. Empires are built on greed but the Garleans are not greedy. They see a farm, they torture and conscript the farmers until everyone is starving. They see a fishing village, they murder the fisherman. They see a quarry and beat and starve the workers. They see a saltmine and drive the people off so that the wildlife reclaims it. They see a paper mill and they destroy it and leave it in ruins. The Garleans do not profit from war, they aren't motivated by it and every action they take says otherwise. Their occupations makes the lands worthless and they must be spending fortunes building the towers, artillery pieces, mecha, shield generators and bases too. This "Empire" should have crumbled the moment the Garleans left Garlemald.
The sinews of war are infinite money, but the Garleans sidestep this because they are one dimensional villains. We learn rebuilding the Doman enclave that they stole all the good tools from the Domans. But we already know the Garleans and their magi-tech don't need medieval tools, they probably just chucked them in the ocean because that was the "cartoonishly evil" thing to do.

Excluding the beast tribes and Dragons you mean. You ignored my point however.

In "our" history books, there is always a resource or a military strategically important reason to invade, which usually stems from breaking treaties. The Garleans invaded La Noscea, Thanalan, The Black Shroud, and had already taken over Ala Mhigo and Doma. Hence the Ala Mhigo refugees near Ul'dah and Doman refugees in Mor Dhona. So it is not an unreasonable prediction that Garlemald gives up every place they've invaded at some point once we "Warrior of Light" stick our nose in at some point.

Yes the Garleans are a bit cartoonish, but I think reality has surpassed the cartoonish villainy earlier this year. There are still major global conflicts going on, and they're over borders.

[Edax]

You may want to read the history books... or simply look at the political situation in many countries right now.

This usually starts with the Government annexing a neighboring piece of land, then...

A) Government declares some minority group as being illegal and less-than human

B) Government makes policies specifically to dehumanize them, turns a blind eye to any genocide under their policies.

C) Government strips the minority group of their resources.

D) Everyone is surprisingly okay with this until the Government falls, and suddenly it's everyone for themselves. If you're rich, you're likely going to become a victim, and that's why rich people flee countries when they become unstable, taking most of the countries wealth with them.

This is everything the Garleans have done and we're now on the way to D with them.

A. When have the Garleans declared a minority as being less-than human? The Ala Mhigans weren't a minority in Ala Mhigo and they were mistreated. The Domans weren't a minority in Doma but they were mistreated. And the Garleans tried to purge Eorzea of all life with Project Meteor and the Eorzeans were not a minority in Eorzea.
B. No established minority discrimination by Garleans in the story as far as I can tell.
C. No established minority discrimination by Garleans in the story as far as I can tell.
D. I haven't seen this happen in FFXIV yet, even after the fall of the Doman and Ala Mhigan military dictatorships. The rich and poor seem to be getting along during the reconstruction. Lord Hien isn't on the run or a victim of his own people yet.