Now that we know SE is listening, here's how to "fix" Pagos.

[Aster_E]

Sure, I have some ideas that I feel would improve Pagos. At least the first two of these ideas that I'm about to share may or may not be the biggest two improvements, depending on whom you ask:

Lower the Health Pools of All Non-NM Mobs
The monsters are damage sponges, even at the same level and using the dominant elements to our advantage. In a slower paced game, this might not be as big of a deal (though such a game would not appeal to me, personally). In a faster-paced combat like we have in FFXIV, it gets to be painful on the wrists, fingers, and our minds as we pound away at practical garbage, which offers next to nothing in the way of mechanics. But wait, there's more! This is a MMO. As surprised as anyone might be to read or hear this, some of us like social interaction, some of us like to save or help others when we can, and some of us have lives that may or may not throw last-second obligations or emergencies. If anyone so much as takes their hand off a keyboard or controller because they need to cover their face to sneeze, and a button is missed, then Exp Chains can, have, and probably will break. I have seen, on three different viewpoints, when a party is so caught up in trying to nail its Chain that they are unable to resurrect someone just a stone's throw away. I should also note here the the majority of people who say they like Pagos--not all, but certainly a large sum--tend to be the same people who chat with their friends on something like Discord. In-game written chat? That's next to empty aside from the gains from monsters dying. So! I figure a good reduction would be a minimum 15% of HP for all monsters outside of Notorious Monster FATEs. This should help if one person dies, someone disconnects or instantly leaves while the party is around Chain #25, or a Red Mage has to walk off all of ten to twenty yalms to do their sacred duty of resurrecting random strangers; AND it should give a little room to maneuver or breathe. One eighth of 100% is 12.5, but account for talk or pull times, or a couple quick seconds to recover MP... so 15% or more. Also, don't go reducing Chain timers or Exp as a result, especially not the former, or that would defeat the purpose.

Party-Player Syncing
Level disparities are a thing. When the unintended NM Trains began in Anemos, this issue was still present for people JUST joining Eureka and trying to find a party. Right now as trains aren't a thing in Pagos, the disparity is too apparent. Someone in the mid to high 20s might take too long to find a party because everyone else is too high or low for them. We, as a playerbase, have asked for this seemingly simple solution since Anemos, and the response Yoshida gave indicated that he might not have fully understood what we're asking for. So let me explain what I mean by this syncing feature.

This is a system of several names depending on what game you look at. "City of Heroes/Villains" had its Sidekick System. FFXI implemented something similar long after I left it for CoX. Basically the idea is that lower level players can sync upward, higher levels can sync down, or the system can allow both on varied situations. I brought this up in a few places including my fc chat, and so far the one person (let's call him Bob H. for the rest of my long post) shouting that this wouldn't work tried telling me that everyone would just stay in the lower level areas of Pagos and level up there. No. His anecdote his false, and I have witnessed its falsehood firsthand in other games, including CoX. Everywhere else that I have been reading or I've been able to bring this concept up? It is seen as an absolute must-have in Pagos. The Level 27 player, let's say, in an instance full of 22-33s and 31-35s, would then have an option to join up or down as long as they're in a party (or, if you REALLY like to over-complicate things, as long as both partied and within a reasonable range of influence).

Increase the Spawn Rates of Notorious Monsters
Let's address the elephant in the room. We know how much you, the developers, do not like the Notorious Monster Trains that began in Anemos. Some of us saw them as fun. Some of us saw them as an opportunity to go AFK to seek out something that actually was entertaining. And some of us were bored out of our minds waiting for something to kill. This was a mixed bag, and for good reason. However, before the trains began, take a look at everyone's reactions to Anemos upon its release; Japanese or American, Official Forums or Reddit or Youtube. Oh, we got a taste of Eureka as you developers intended, and many of us hated it so much back then. We still hate the intended way now with Pagos, especially now as it seems so forced.

This is counter-intuitive as well. The NMs only give so many Pagos Crystals, and we need 500 per each of FIFTEEN RELIC WEAPONS. Weapons, I might add, that are going to be outdated in about a month. We need a regular flow of crystals, especially for those of us who like to hunt for glamours or achievements. Some of us also have more than one job that we love to play, and so we need to be more expedient in getting the best weapons we can on those jobs. Some of us don't hardcore raid, so THE RELICS ARE OUR BEST BET. And yet, the Pagos crystals come in at such a rate that a few of us might have enough for one weapon by the time we hit level 35, and many others have to grind even more.

My buddy Bob H., remember my mention of him, tried picking an unwanted argument with me saying that NM grinding is still feasible. However, timers are unreliable at the moment since some instances instantly recycle. Someone going into a seemingly fresh instance will be sorely disappointed when a NM does not spawn, because the instance is not so "fresh." You see, the lowered spawn rates actually accentuate an issue that was around in Anemos, but hardly anyone noticed. Sometimes instances won't have such a clean slate as to what will spawn after so many mobs have been slain. Additionally, when the timer finally does refresh, the people who killed those mobs are gone, the timer will have dwindled some, and people coming in will have to hurry across the zone to get to that spot, only to find that not enough people are there to fight the higher level NM (oops). So no, NM farming is not so feasible at the moment.

It's clear that Pagos was designed against the trains just running across at any time, and that should be almost enough. The only other things you need is for the regular monster slaying to be less tedious and more rewarding, less beefy even (look at my first point), and the party-player syncing. The trains in Anemos formed out of necessity to break away from the mob grind and issue with level discrepancies, despite whatever non-sensical thing Bob H. tried to tell me that I don't even remember. Do the first two things I mentioned, and you won't have to worry about trains wrecking your content that you designed if you bring the spawn rates back up even halfway, I guarantee it.

Reduce the Required Level of Northwest Aetheryte
The current requirement is level 30. The mobs surrounding the area are generally farmed by groups in the mid-to-upper 20s, as well the spot for 23-25s to farm is just past the sleeping dragon to the east. Starting at level 25, players have a point of interest nearby (I won't spoil it) that they need to reach, and will probably want to revisit time and again not long after hitting 25. Level 27 would be a perfect change to this, in my honest opinion. It's in that farming range, and it's when that point of interest should be revisited. If you eventually double (or greater) the amount of light given--as you basically always do--by mobs and NMs then this will only become doubly apparent, and the need to go back to that spot at level 27 will increase so players can take full advantage of what they have.

Cut Those Sleeping Dragons Down in Level
They are level 40. Yes, the danger is great and novel at first for lower 20s trying to explore, or trying to get to the northern half of the map for any reason. By level 25, those same dragons are just a nuisance and waste of time as long as we slow walk and DON'T CAST ANYTHING. If you make those sleeping dragons Lv30, or even 32, then their presence will not overstay their welcome. On a slightly related note...

Either Prune or Move a Few Mobs
Especially in that canyon of death with most of the sleeping dragons there are so many monsters. Too often it feels like a waiting game for them to turn around so parties can finally pass by and get that much closer to the spot they're farming at. As a result, sometimes a NM will spawn moments after the farm begins, so the party has to choose between sacrificing their chain to go do the Notorious Monster, thus resulting in needing to make that same trek once, twice, possibly thrice more, versus staying where they are and missing out on much needed Pagos Crystals, good exp, and a decent amount of light. Please make it easier to traverse this obvious choking point on the map so people can more easily get to and from their farming locations. Combine with the Aetheryte fix, and suddenly the mob farming will be more feasible since that much less has to be given up. Again, as mentioned earlier, the trains should not be necessary.

Actually Raise the Exp and Improve Chain Timers
You don't need to do anything too crazy here, especially if all of the above are done. The idea is that killing mobs needs to feel rewarding without being strenuous. If people wanted to put so much time and effort into their weapons that are good for the current patch then chances are that they would hardcore raid. Just as the 24man raids are a fine source of equal-to-tome gear for alt jobs catching up, the relics shouldn't take so long to earn that they cease to matter once the average, casual player finally gets one. That said, Exp can use a small boost, as well higher Chains can use such rewards as a greater chance at earning light. This point might be the least necessary, so it's up to you if you want to do this along with everything else I stated until now.

In short, Pagos needs help. Most of us know this. Don't be like that Bob H. guy who says this form of content is good as it is. It might be engaging to some, and fun might be relative, but rubbing our faces up and down a cheese grater is engaging and totally unhealthy, no matter who might think they like the experience. o_O

[Mahrze]

No, he wants to bring back the one thing that made the grind bearable, that a (seemingly vocal) minority complained about. I prefer the grinds that you mentioned, over the current Pagos mob grind.

Besides, what's the point of making a grindy step and adding it just over a month away from a major patch that increases the iLvl on combat gear? If you grind enough, you might get 3 weeks of 'enjoyment' out of it (even though there's other options), before you can just grab a better weapon off the new primal (or another crafter, if there's new crafted weapons). If they wanted Pagos to be the grindy step of the relic, it should've been part of the initial 4.3 patch release.

Then just wait until logos comes out and Pagos is nerfed to the ground like Anemos was.

All those steps at least incorporated some degree of variety. I can socialize or take a break in between fates, I can opt to farm different dungeons or bosses despite them not being as efficient. For example, I occasionally ran Weeping City and Dun Scaith for my Anima. They're nowhere near as fast as spamming ARF, but I love both raids. Pagos lacks even these basic attributes. If I stop at any point, the chain breaks and everyone loses a good chunk of EXP. And there is no alternative to chaining mobs. You simply do the same thing for hours on end while developing carpal tunnel from spamming the same handful of buttons over and over again. No one socializes anymore because again, that interrupts the chain. Even worse, if someone tags your mob, rip experience. Everything about Pagos punishes socialization even within your own damn party.

Only a small minority complained about the train; primarily because they couldn't get chain parties to form. That should tell you how the overall playerbase feels about chaining mobs. Despite it being a superior alternative, very few wanted to do it in Anemos. If you want to thwart AFKing, make a system where you're required to do x amount of damage to the boss instead of making it enmity based like hunts. Regardless, I couldn't care less how the devs intended for Eureka to function. Their vision is a monotonous, boring, uncreative chore. If I wanted to simply grind thousands of brainless enemies, I'd play Black Desert or Dynasty Warriors—games with far better combat for that style of gameplay. Or better yet, Monster Hunter World. Imagine if instead of cool "boss" like monsters, you were forced to kill the passive animals except they have millions of HP. MHW would be pretty damn boring. Welcome to Pagos. Instead of killing the cool bosses, we're killing trash.

And yet we complained about choices. Its not about a matter of how "minor" a voice is, its a voice they end up hearing. And a voice they acted to cater to. Plenty of people have already said it, don't do it and let them see how bad it is based on participation.

They won't make any drastic changes unless a drastic reaction happens and the amount of changes they need to do to make Pagos as "Anemos-like" to achieve NM train benefits is way too much:

*- Remove the frosted dragons
*- reduce HP of mobs
*- change the level of mounts
*- adjust aetheryte levels so people can port earlier than 30s
*- add dailies, etc.

That already amounts to "a whole new piece of content". But if they see an overall "high" participation and positive feedback in their home-front (which is the one they actually care for) then this is what it is.

[Doki]

They way it is set up currently, there's no reason to go in after doing your challenge log for the week. Sure it will take a month or so, but at least you're not wasting hours for next to nothing.

[Nezerius]

Then just wait until logos comes out and Pagos is nerfed to the ground like Anemos was.

Moving goalposts, unless you somehow happen to know how Logos will be.

But if they see an overall "high" participation and positive feedback in their home-front (which is the one they actually care for) then this is what it is.

As far as I know, the JP playerbase is complaining about Pagos as well.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

You want to fix Eureka? Give solo people some options. I'm tired of being unable to level up because everyone is already grouped up or higher leveled than me.

[Mahrze]

Moving goalposts, unless you somehow happen to know how Logos will be.

How am I moving goal posts? You've been blunt about your interest in the weapon has dwindled due to short-lived enjoyment. Hence telling you to wait until its nerfed to do it if you really want to but the current situation isn't "worth it" for you.

As far as I know, the JP playerbase is complaining about Pagos as well.

Well, lets then see how this develops. Its the only playerbase that counts. /s

[Nezerius]

How am I moving goal posts? You've been blunt about your interest in the weapon has dwindled due to short-lived enjoyment. Hence telling you to wait until its nerfed to do it if you really want to but the current situation isn't "worth it" for you.

Or, y'know, SE could actually release the relic steps earlier in a patch, like they did with the ARR and HW relics. Those were ''worth it'' to me, since I grinded out multiple of those pre-nerf (and even a few post-nerf, for the looks).

[Stormfur]

There are so many things that could be improved in Pagos, in addition to what's already been said:

Increase the number of treasure chests
Yes, Anemos had too many. But now Pagos has too few. If I'm getting so few chests now, I want there to be something REALLY good in them -- not cherry confetti. I'm sure you can find a nice middle-ground regarding chest drop rate. Especially since it's now much faster to open them.

Put valuable items in the chests
I was excited to do Anemos because I came out with a truckload of chests and perhaps one of those would be a T-rex! I'm sad that Pagos doesn't at least get a snowy Mylodon mount -- complete with a snowball throwing action!

There's no reason to explore
I want to explore this frozen wasteland and find unique treasures. I don't even mind there being some element of danger where I have to sneak. But I know that if I go into an area much higher level than I am, I'm going to die and get that huge XP penalty, so there's no way I want to go wandering off! I am an adventurer! Let me adventure!

The bunnies are a gimmicky joke
Here's a thing that leads you to rare treasure -- at the edge of a death cliff riddled with monsters! Oh and not everyone gets the treasure in a FATE that so few people do because it doesn't give XP. Come on, SE -- more carrot, less stick!

[Aster_E]

There are so many things that could be improved in Pagos, in addition to what's already been said:

Increase the number of treasure chests
Yes, Anemos had too many. But now Pagos has too few. If I'm getting so few chests now, I want there to be something REALLY good in them -- not cherry confetti. I'm sure you can find a nice middle-ground regarding chest drop rate. Especially since it's now much faster to open them. [/I][/B]

For instance, crafting and gathering materia, mostly tier V. The devs want us spending so much time in Pagos, and some of us are still working on melding our crafters and gatherers in preparation for 4.4. A little relief for those of us with less time than others would be beneficial, whether by directly supplying us with more or by putting extra supply of Command Vs on the MB to meet the current demand.

Also, normal quality potions that boost our mob exp in Eureka. Make it uncommon, sure, but make it an option in the loot pool for people not doing the Bunny FATEs nor buying off the MB at this present time.

[Stormfur]

RE: the potions - I think that's why they gave elemental xp fairies throughout Pagos - so that you would have an option rather than buying off the MB.