My Review of Pagos: An Uninspired Disappointment

[Cerbolt]

Couldn't agree more. I can't even begin to understand what the Devs were thinking but I really don't like where Eureka is going. I mean Anemos wasn't great, but it had potential. Pagos just makes me want to log off and never come back. That's not how a game should make players feel.

[Theodric]

The developers simply need to start being bolder and engaging the community more. Particularly the EU and NA portion of the community. Pagos and Diadem have one thing in common: they were both given a very bare bones coverage across multiple Live Letters. I can only take that as an acknowledgement on behalf of the development team that even they do not think it is particularly compelling content.

I'm tired of being told that we can't have X or Y due to 'limitations'. The developers did not struggle in the past to add multiple hairstyles with each new content patch in the past, for instance. So why are we only getting two these days and why are they almost always designed to be very feminine or androgynous?

Why are the developers spending more time covering a paid app than they're spending talking about what is supposed to be one of the major selling points of the expansion?

Why are rival MMO's providing player housing to every single player yet FFXIV does not do so?

Why is nothing being done to address win trading, boosting and the dirty money flowing through the high end PvP and PvE scenes? It severely degrades the integrity of the game.

I love this game. I really do. Yet with each new patch I'm left feeling very bitter because obvious issues are ignored and brushed under the table...with a pretty major disconnect on the part of the development team in regards to the issues that plague the EU and NA side of the fence. The latest scandal in that regard just happens to be Eureka.

[Hamada]

If I wanted a rendition of FFXI, I would play FFXI. Now I can only speak from hearsay as I never played that game, however many have highlighted content like Eureka and other aspects since lifted were implemented far better in FFXI than their FFXIV interpretation.

I really really hate people trying to give this excuse. It has NOTHING to do with ffxi!!!! you can't put a FFXI style grind in ffxiv because it simply doesn't work. FFXIV you are keeping tight rotations in small amount of times (2 sec OCD then using OGCDS while that is on cooldown) People only say that because ffxi = grind so any long grind = ffxi, it is a huge fallacy comparison and an invalid one. The reason is because in ffxi you semi afk a lot and could type as you auto attacked and cast spells, you did not need a high apm in ffxi so long sittings worked in that game. You cannot bring that to FFXIV's combat system and because of that, they are not alike and can never be alike.

My girlfriend was flipping out within 10 minutes of entering with me because it was basically repeating all of Anemos. Furthermore, SE did not listen to the warnings of having a wall for new players to pass by, that is Anemos is dead so how does someone at level 1 progress? The thing with my girlfriend however, did LONG grinds in ffxi, like having all jobs max leveled before abyssea existed, fully upgraded relic, did all endgame among others, and hates Eureka while on the stance Pagos did nothing to address the issues that existed in Anemos.

[Mahrze]

I really really hate people trying to give this excuse. It has NOTHING to do with ffxi!!!! you can't put a FFXI style grind in ffxiv because it simply doesn't work. FFXIV you are keeping tight rotations in small amount of times (2 sec OCD then using OGCDS while that is on cooldown) People only say that because ffxi = grind so any long grind = ffxi, it is a huge fallacy comparison and an invalid one. The reason is because in ffxi you semi afk a lot and could type as you auto attacked and cast spells, you did not need a high apm in ffxi so long sittings worked in that game. You cannot bring that to FFXIV's combat system and because of that, they are not alike and can never be alike.

My girlfriend was flipping out within 10 minutes of entering with me because it was basically repeating all of Anemos. Furthermore, SE did not listen to the warnings of having a wall for new players to pass by, that is Anemos is dead so how does someone at level 1 progress? The thing with my girlfriend however, did LONG grinds in ffxi, like having all jobs max leveled before abyssea existed, fully upgraded relic, did all endgame among others, and hates Eureka while on the stance Pagos did nothing to address the issues that existed in Anemos.

I know you hate it, but even when approached by GameWatch in an interview, and they made the reference of it being "like FFXI" Yoshi didn't really disagree with the comparison, he just underlined the things why they would see it that way

It sounds like the world of FFXI in Eureka.

Yoshida: Things like NMs (notorious monsters) will make use of FFXIV systems, like the FATE mechanism, to allow anyone to fight them, but it is a bit like older generation gameplay.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...ew-Translation

[Hamada]

I know you hate it, but even when approached by GameWatch in an interview, and they made the reference of it being "like FFXI" Yoshi didn't really disagree with the comparison, he just underlined the things why they would see it that way

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...ew-Translation

Yoshi says a lot of things that ended up not being true, and this is one of them. I stand what I said in why it is not like FFXI and why nothing can be like FFXI in FFXIV. (In regards long leveling grinds, i/e the main point why eureka is not working)Why you think this is being deemed a failure? Because they did an idea that can't work, and i explained why it can't work. Let me ask you, why did they release the same thing as the first eureka? Did they expect the reaction to be different? They did nothing different or make big changes from the first one, why?

As others explained in this thread, when they asked for ffxi elements, they are talking about what made ffxi so successful and that was endgame progress progression, not trying to bring back flaws in a game and hope a large part of the user base will have a positive view over nostalgia. There is a reason why threads like this keep poping up, because they keep trying to push ideas that can't work. FFXIV's combat system is not designed for long sittings like you did in ffxi because how the combat systems are between the two games. Here is an example on what happens when you have a nice idea, but not practical to release:
https://youtu.be/H901KdXgHs4

[Mahrze]

Yoshi says a lot of things that ended up not being true, and this is one of them.

Yes, that's why he's stopped saying them.

Why you think this is being deemed a failure? Because they did an idea that can't work, and i explained why it can't work. Let me ask you, why did they release the same thing as the first eureka? Did they expect the reaction to be different? They did nothing different or make big changes from the first one, why?

But apparently its a success in the domestic market. Iirc even on some interviews after anemos, the dev team liked the result of anemos and played it. International market is all white noise.

[TKSilver]

As i see it, Pagos is a clear example of design intentions backfiring horribly:

Design intention (probably): discourage "NM Trains" and possibly afk-ing
Method: having NM spawns take longer, giving mobs more HP/damage (?) and increasing their xp (?)

-> Result 1: players try to only form parties with at most a one level difference, making it difficult and frustrating to find a party.
(as opposed to the "lfg fate train" -> instant invite in anemos)
-> Result 2: since players focus on mobs of their level range, only small groups work on any given NM at one time, resulting in even longer spawn times.
-> Result 3: as mob xp is greatly reduced if other parties pull, cooperation between parties is discouraged
-> Result 4: long spawn times and the nature of the mob strength results in long stretches of monotonous gameplay (single target combat against regular mobs).
-> Result 5: IF a NM spawns, most of the players have to run across the map, risking death and loss of xp, as they are scattered in their respective areas.

In summary: The current state of Pagos makes it harder to form parties, discourages players from working together beyond the regular party size and feels horribly monotonous.

The worst part: the design decisions didn't seem to have fun for the player in mind and just feel punishing for no reason. The NM train in Anemos, while flawed, was fun in some way at least since it provided frequent changes of things you fought (be it bosses or regular mobs) and allowed for a broad range of player levels in one party.

[Mesarthim]

Pagos enemies have like 350,000 hp. That is extremely excessive. I don't remember what the hp count was for anemos enemies but I also found it to be a bit high there too.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

It's the worst, It's so slow. All the mechanics in it fight the design of the instance. It's been like this forever with these exploratory missions PoC.

it's just weird. Instances in general have been established as when you go in the group is working together toward a goal. Even the alliance raids that have multiple groups. The exploratory and eureka have had this issue where all the player brought into the instance are no longer working together infarct they are competing for limited resources.

This goes against the games general design and feel. It was tolerable in Anemos, because the NM had all the groups working together and they were plentiful enough that no one was that competitive with the mobs before hand so they all work together to spawn the NMs with no one minding sacrificing the experience the mobs used to spawn them.

Now in Pagos, the NMs are far and in between so the mobs used to spawn them have become a limited and valuable resource. Groups are no longer working together they are competing to tag these mobs to get their groups experience resulting in groups sabotaging other groups to lay claim to an area. It goes against what this game has been trying to foster. The feel of Pagos is real slow and there is no cooperation in the instance anymore.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

As i see it, Pagos is a clear example of design intentions backfiring horribly:

Design intention (probably): discourage "NM Trains" and possibly afk-ing
Method: having NM spawns take longer, giving mobs more HP/damage (?) and increasing their xp (?)

-> Result 1: players try to only form parties with at most a one level difference, making it difficult and frustrating to find a party.
(as opposed to the "lfg fate train" -> instant invite in anemos)
-> Result 2: since players focus on mobs of their level range, only small groups work on any given NM at one time, resulting in even longer spawn times.
-> Result 3: as mob xp is greatly reduced if other parties pull, cooperation between parties is discouraged
-> Result 4: long spawn times and the nature of the mob strength results in long stretches of monotonous gameplay (single target combat against regular mobs).
-> Result 5: IF a NM spawns, most of the players have to run across the map, risking death and loss of xp, as they are scattered in their respective areas.

In summary: The current state of Pagos makes it harder to form parties, discourages players from working together beyond the regular party size and feels horribly monotonous.

The worst part: the design decisions didn't seem to have fun for the player in mind and just feel punishing for no reason. The NM train in Anemos, while flawed, was fun in some way at least since it provided frequent changes of things you fought (be it bosses or regular mobs) and allowed for a broad range of player levels in one party.

Couldn't agree more.