Infantilized Aesthetics

[InkstainedGwyn]

Mmmm, it's not that gamers are getting older, it's that whereas earlier the "parental" generation was saying "you'll rot your brain go outside" now there's a lot more parents playing, which means also allowing their children to play, and as more MMOs move into the mainstream, more people of all ages are finding them that might once have only thought about movies and TV. I think the core age group has gone up maybe from the teens/20s to like... 20s-40s, but that's not "old". But also, "older" doesn't mean "more mature."

Overall... I have a lot of different small thoughts about it, but I wouldn't say any lean towards wholly good or wholly bad. Part of me does miss the days of super niche games, exploring to find random achievement spots or treasure chests or raids the whole server works together to open or... you get the point. But on the other hand, I remember playing vanilla WoW when patches were unheard of and you got new content maybe once a year [don't quote me, it's been a looooooong time and I've played a lot of MMOs since then]. Small improvements occasionally, but nothing massive. I like having new content every few weeks even if it bothers people that it's not "brand new" or "innovative". And a lot of that comes because of the "commercialization" of games.

I don't have a ton of time to play anymore, and I appreciate the game being easier to access. I like knowing that I can get things I want; they're not the Ashes of Al'ar again. Even back when I played LotRO or SWtOR, content wasn't nearly as accessible. Now, there are a lot of QoL features from those games I wish we could get here and I loved them and their stories and still do (for the most part *eyes KotFE*). And if "commercialization" is the price I have to pay for all of this (you can't constantly churn stuff out without revenue, after all), I think it's a small one.

Fair disclosure: I also used to spend hours upon hours running around as a miniscule speck on my blood elf warlock after having both a noggenfogger elixir and one of those candy pumpkins that shrinks you so... I've always enjoyed silly things, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

In the end, "frivolous" stuff has never really bothered me, but while I've RP'd many times in my many MMOs, I've never desired to "completely immerse myself" in an MMO (other than ESO, but that's because I'm used to my Elder Scrolls games being single-player) so... I don't have an issue separating the seriousness of the story from the silliness of the social aspect. But I also recognise that it's a personal PoV. I don't feel like FFXIV has gotten any more frivolous than it was 4 years ago, but I also recognise that its frivolity may not be for everyone.

[Rufalus]

I didn't want to reply when the thread was first posted up because it's so well written and I didn't want to lower the tone with a lazy post, but I think we're past that. Sorry about the people who misunderstood you and reacted defensively. Your assessment is a nice read and I do think something was lost compared to the old way, the niche mmos with more consistency and restraint in their presentation. The v2 relaunch of this game aimed at the mainstream, the elements that make WoW attractive to a large audience, so you have lots and lots of big flashy rewards to show off. I'd like to add more substance to the discussion but you know, me lazy... Well, it's money. That's the reason. It's better to have 10 million customers who kind of like something than 120k customers who really love it. Satisfying the niche isn't as viable as targeting the mainstream in a world that uses a monetary system. This game is designed to have as broad appeal as possible.

[Shurrikhan]

snip

I personally don't care much about rarity. If everyone got the Savage mounts, I'd consider it solely a blow to the unique incentives to do Savage content, not to the visual integrity of the game.

That said, I do actually take issue with particular gaudy or aesthetically incohesive mounts and gear. (That said, mounts are about the only real offender there, in my opinion, and even then only really the magic ponies, the Youkai Watch mount, and flying wingless creatures -- and hell, I can even find the flying turtle humorous and "XIVish" enough to be fine.)

[Rokke]

I get where we're loosing each other, there's a lot of blurry lines in terms of what might overly cartoony to ME vs. YOU. How about I limit my beef to things that glow, flame, flash, or otherwise make visual spam when I'm standing in Limsa. How about the Rog's with pink afros? I don't know man, there's some cartoony sh** that's just beyond the pail. I don't want to go item by item and debate you on whether or not the afrno hair style breaks the rules of the world. That might be part of my point, there doesn't seem to be any rules for the world... anything goes. Afros? Why not! Mohawks? Woohoo! Let's just make the game into GTO, maybe we can get some glocks and low rider mounts too.

not Vidu but jumping on this -
The game has rules that most NPCs adhere to: Ishgardians tend to be elezen and wear certain clothes, Gridanians tend to wear earthy colors, the Xaela tribes have set outfits, Garleans tend to be very tall and pale, etc. Afros exist in the world (you'll see some NPCs with them) as do guns (the pirates use pistols/muskets, machinists use aether lunchbox guns, and then garleans use scifi-tier lasers, guns, gunblades). Our character is not bound by said rules, but everyone is completely free to dress within those rules if they want a stronger sense of belonging to the world.



imo, the FF series has always had some goofy anime elements to it. I personally came into this MMO expecting an anime flavored WoW and it hasn't really strayed far from my expectations. The idol concert event seems out of place until you remember that a 3 foot tall anime gnome with an itty bitty sword can be your tank in a dungeon lol

[Genoreaper]

Sounds like you'd rather play ark/rust ect.

[Fyce]

I get where we're loosing each other, there's a lot of blurry lines in terms of what might overly cartoony to ME vs. YOU. How about I limit my beef to things that glow, flame, flash, or otherwise make visual spam when I'm standing in Limsa. How about the Rog's with pink afros? I don't know man, there's some cartoony sh** that's just beyond the pail. I don't want to go item by item and debate you on whether or not the afrno hair style breaks the rules of the world. That might be part of my point, there doesn't seem to be any rules for the world... anything goes. Afros? Why not! Mohawks? Woohoo! Let's just make the game into GTO, maybe we can get some glocks and low rider mounts too.

It's not because the possibility of making a goofy character exists (which is something that was feasible since ARR, btw) that "the game" has become "cartoonish" as a whole. Whatever that word means.

Also, there are countless examples of mainstream gear, mounts and customization options added to the game that aren't "infantilized aesthetics". Besides, your OP, doesn't provide any kind of actual examples to help us understand better your own tastes, even after you stated very clearly "This is an opinion piece, please take it with a grain of salt."
If this thread is just there so that one person simply says "I don't like [insert generality]", then it's pretty much not worth discussing at all. Especially without any actual ingame examples (gear name, screenshots, etc.).

[Vidu]

@Vidu
I get where we're loosing each other, there's a lot of blurry lines in terms of what might overly cartoony to ME vs. YOU. How about I limit my beef to things that glow, flame, flash, or otherwise make visual spam when I'm standing in Limsa. How about the Rog's with pink afros? I don't know man, there's some cartoony sh** that's just beyond the pail. I don't want to go item by item and debate you on whether or not the afrno hair style breaks the rules of the world. That might be part of my point, there doesn't seem to be any rules for the world... anything goes. Afros? Why not! Mohawks? Woohoo! Let's just make the game into GTO, maybe we can get some glocks and low rider mounts too.

You mean... stuff like people spamming their magic skills in a magic world? Pssst - thats why I crafted outside the main-market in Ul'dah. In 2013 already.

As for a pink Afro: Thats called freedom and options.
As Rokke pointed out: There is a set of rules and the devs and NPCs follow it. Each region has their own aesthtics and style of clothing for their people. Non of that looks very cartoony to me (Ul'dahn tunica, simple vests and dresses for Limsa, earth and gree tones in Gridania - all wearing lowlevel gear... Ishgardian high house attire along with simple, yet functional chainmail and dirty, cheap clothes for those living in the slums... We have Kimonos and more eastern fashion in Kugane and the Au Ra tribes of the steps are all wearing those coats - they're even colour-code for their tribe.)

So its not the game itself breaking the immersion, but the people playing the game. Maybe I missunderstood you indeed or maybe you phrased your question wrong, but to me it seems the question should - if at all - more aim towards the playerbase that makes use of the those tools to give their character a silly look, because, as I pointed out, the "real" gear has a rather serious look most of the time.
So the real question would have to be why more and more people dress up that way - first off: Personally I dont believe that thats really the case. But for the sake of this I'll work with your assumption.
The basic main reason would be: Because its fun, which is probably the main reason to play this (or any) game. Fun is obviously subjective and for some people, but playing dress up seems to appeal to a lot of us.
Maybe silly dressed people want to provoke, maybe it amuses themself greatly to play a half-naked male Roe with a pink Afro.
We also got more options to dress up silly since ARR - again: silly gear is nothing new but with adding new glamoursets and hairstyles with each patch, we got more and more options to pick and combine. Its nothing new, its just them following a trend they introduced along with the glamoursystem. And again: at the same time we also got serious looking gear - both for real use as for glamour aswell.

I honestly dont agree with your idea that the playerbase is getting more juvenile - I see as many silly dressed people as I did back in ARR. And they're by far not a majority. Cats in sexy, short dresses are by far more common to be honest...

You also seem to make the funny assumption that older = more mature, which in my experience doesnt always hold true.
And as I pointed out earlier: a lot of people are using this to escape their boring or maybe even depressive lifes - I can totally understand why someone would want to get a good laugh out of this.
I'm raiding with a casual static and to keep spirits high and give us all something to laugh about on a tuesday evening when we could look forward to wiping to Kefka for an hour, I would give glamour-tasks - we once defeated him, all dressed up as our favorite Disney Princess and had a blast with it. Grats, game, you achieved your goal! And the next morning we all went back to our serious jobs as software developer, libarian or uni-student. But this game gives everyone the option to just "ease out" for an evening and just do something funny or silly once in a while. Doesnt mean those people are juvenile all the time or dont take the game serious.
People also want their character to stand out, to be unique - something you should be able to relate to, judging by your OP.

And the game might be lacking substance - but the reason for that isnt the Roe in the pink Afro whos spamming Holy in Limsa. The reason for that is that the devs decided to bet on the wrong horse and poured a lot of ressources into content like Eureka, thats just not working quite as they intended to.

...and even if part of the reason that the game is lacking content in more than one way is that they dont have the money and manpower to developed more content: This game is still a multimillion-$-project by a major developer/publisher. Obviously it has to appeal to as many people as possible - games are mainstream now, they're accepted and they got more expensive, so they need to appeal to a bigger audience to get their moneys worth.
So they throw both in - silly outfits and serious ones.
Why someone would pick a silly outfit could have many reasons... but seeing how this doesnt seem to be a widespread issue to me, I'm not sure if I'd agree with that "trend" you seem to see here...

I would also like to point out that I never asked you to go through every item - just to give me an example. I have no idea what you're actually having an issue with when it comes to regular gear, just that you dont like the "extreme" of a Roe with a pink Afro. Which is both rare and realistic - I'd never do that to my own hair, but I'm pretty sure its possible to have a pink afro irl.

But yeah... maybe we wont understand each other. I like metal, boom-boom doesnt speak to me.

[Genoreaper]

Just read this thread completely. There is so much cringeworthy masked insecurities hidden behind faux intelligence. If you need to try to use a thesaurus to stumble through your post and resort to forcing yourself to try to speak extra proper english on a forum to project the image of what you find yourself wanting to be... you have bigger issues than game immersion.

But yeah how dare these lala not be more realistic! I mean these are the minds behind real rugged historically accurate attire like Steiner, or common adventurer outfits like Tidus or Zidane and Sora.

You worry about everything being spoon fed to casual players yet dream of a runescape-esque open world pvp. I wonder if that's because high end content scares you, limiting that to the only way you could obtain these items? I haven't checked logs but who knows.

I'm a black mage, the fire and flash is what I'm all about. As a tank you break my immersion by being in jeans/jacket. Where is your plate armor? You briefly mentioned products targeted at wrong consumers (kids meal) however that's blind to who the real target consumer is (parents who will pay extra for a "kid" meal and toy) I think you've had the same mistaken impression when you bought this game expecting a...what? Dark gritty... dark soul's clone? Part of your issue is you haven't even started what you expected this world to be. Based on your attire not the general wizards and knight style. Not final fantasy styles with everything from eiko to quina to Vincent. Just a vague unhappiness that other people are enjoying themselves which breaks your immersion in a multi player game...

There are solo games suited for what you seem to want, or games with LIMITED multiplayer such as souls or monster hunter.

Then again maybe I just don't like the condescending edgelord hipster vibe of this post. I can almost smell the vape clouds attached to all your replies

[ko_]

Plays a miqo with pink hair wearing a jacket. Complains about silly outfits and game going cartoony. Just saying. :/ that's like saying sonic is too silly for a blue hedgehog running at the speed of sound. You're playing the wrong game.

[Vidu]

Aginst my better will and judgment this thread kinda stuck with me throughout my afternoon shopping which made me think of several points I want to adress here - I can accept that everyone has a different opinion and I'm happy to leave OPs theirs, but my opinion is that thats based on a wrongful perception of this game and certain facts related to it. Seeing how OP corrected their course a few times throughout the thread, I'll try to adress several points (without forgetting anything).

Designs provided by the game

I wont go into details again, since I already did but to me OP seemed to claim that the general design of the game has gotten more "cartooney" over the years, something I dont see any evidence of. The odd cartoony-silly-gear-set has existed since ARR; a rather anime-like fantasy-style is part of the brand since FFI. I've already been wondering if OP never saw one of those very colorful Amano-illustrations.
I fail to see a trend towards more infantilized gear or aesthetics here and OP kinda refused to even give one example of a current gear-set that he would lable "infantilized".

There are no rules!

There is no proof!
And indeed there are rules within the game - for once the NPCs all follow a general, "serious" aesthetic related to the area they live in, their social status etc.
But there are also rules for us, as players: We have a minimum amount of race-locked gear, we have far to much genderlocked gear and SB took gear thats locked to certain jobs to a new level. Gear dyes exactly one way - aka: certain parts dye and you have no control over the other parts.
Hair is limited to two colors and you can only have one type of Make-Up. We see weekly threads about people asking for more customisation options or the removal of gender/race/job-locks on gear.
You'll never see a healer in chainmail, because there are rules by the game preventing that.

Players dress up more juvenile!

Again a claim that I would like to see evidence for - I'm not saying that Pink-Afro-Neonorange-Subligar-Naked-Roes dont exists, but I am saying that they're not far spread. Its the odd one out in a majority of people who dress their character in a "serious" way. Or in the case of a lot of catgirls: a sexy way. Honestly, I've seen far more catgirls in skimpy clothes than characters that are dressed outright ridicolous.
In my anecdotal experience they're still the exception rather than the norm - and I havent seen a trend towards more pink-afros (please note that I'm using those as a metaphor right now).
I also argued my main-reason for this: Fun. Which is not something unlikly to seek in a video game.
But I would like to adress a few more points - you argued that you'd expect more adults to play games nowadays. That might be true, but that doesnt mean that there arent any 15 year olds playing anymore!
I also already pointed out that just because you're 30 you have to act mature all the time - I'd expect to be quite the opposite the case when it comes to this game: We have to act mature and like proper, functioning adults in most aspects of our life - work, family, friends, taxes... - and this game gives us the room not to act like a super-serious buisnessman for 2 hours.
Sometimes, a silly glamour might also just be a joke - I would consider myself a rather mature person for the most part, but I've been tanking in a coralle-pink armour before because this stupid dungeon refused to drop the gear I wanted and only gave me said dye, that I ended up using out of protest. What I'm trying to say here is: When you see someone in a silly glamour you get a very, very short glimpse of them. There could be 101 reasons why the person picked that glamour - living out their juvenile side is only one of them.

In general: wether you pick the "the gear looks more and more juvenile" or the "players dress up more and more juvenile" approach, I'm afraid I dont see it. At least not on my server.
The game - and the franchise itself - has always been rather colorful, with a more fantasy-anime-style and the odd silly-part, while maintaining darker and more serious options aswell.
I hold the firm believe that a player should be allowed to break the immersion of a game, if they wish to - as I pointed out: You did that yourself, your leather-jacket is no chainmail that would withstand blows, hits and bites from various enemies.
Maybe I missunderstood you about this, but you made it sound as if you've got an issue with that and are judging the people who want to run around in a pink afro, because thats not mature enough for you. Thats what I'm taking the biggest issue with here btw.
If you want a game with strict rules on what people can wear to avoid running into silly stuff... you might want to pick a solo-game. If you have an issue with the anime-cartoon-style this franchise has been using from basically day one, thats okay! Maybe go look for a game that has a darker, grittier and more realistic style - FFXIV:ARR was never that game.
Its okay to like different things and to prefer a darker style - you can achieve that style within the game aswell btw - but FFXIV never provided that in the first place, so if thats your expectation at this game, you've probably been looking at the wrong place to begin with.