NOT THE SAME GRIND OVER AND OVER AGAIN

[odintius]

I like grinds that what mmo are really I just find the rewards in this game isn't worth those grinds >.> imo!!

[TheGrimace]

Grinds can be good when they're chill and fun. These grinds are not chill and fun, they're exhausting constant frays with no end in sight and no sense of progression. You grind to see progress. When you don't see progress and aren't enjoying yourself, why grind? Lots of people have also complained that the constant battles required due to FFXIV's involved combat system have been giving hand cramps akin to carpal tunnel.

That's a big problem.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Stop playing video games then. They are ALL about doing the same thing over and over for points.

I have played some single player games through over a dozen times. In fact, my all time favourite JRPG I beat thirty some odd times. It offers a repetitive battle system that is easily exploited. You know why I still adore that game to this very day? The character and their story made it a compelling adventure each and every time I walked back into their world. I can recite the dialogue almost word for word and mouth half the voice work yet still enjoy every moment because good character and story can accomplish this; combat is secondary. Eureka? The combat is literally the only focus. And it highlights the worst aspect of FFXIV. Combat is stale, repetitive and ultimately lacks any engaging after a prolonged period of time. What makes it all come together are mechanics due to a sense of dynamism hence why you rarely hear complaints towards the NMs. Killing 400+ trash mobs who do the same auto-attacks isn't fun. If that were all video games offered, the industry would have died decades ago.

Good games mask their repetitive through gameplay mechanics, story or compelling boss fights in between. Eureka offers none of that. It emphasizes the repetitiveness while the bosses serve more as a distraction than a compelling interruption. Ask yourself a simple question. If the relics weren't apart of Eureka, would you even unlock it? If the answer is no, that speaks to the quality of the content. It's no different than the i280 weapons they shoved into Diadem. They know bloody well the overwhelming majority of players wouldn't touch Eureka if it didn't have the relic. Sadly, the relics have become an excuse they can half-ask development, which is why Pagos is a paint-by-numbers copy of Anemos.

With this kind of content, I actually hope WoW decimates FFXIV with their new expansion—to the point sub numbers are the lowest they've been in years. Why? Because maybe the developers will wake up and do something.

[Asheran]

I had to take a break for a while because even with a full party on something, I feel like I have to be top-of-my-game paying attention and nonstop casting on every single mob in order to just barely keep a chain going. So my hand is killing me now after day 1 and I'm only level 23.

[Hyperia]

With this kind of content, I actually hope WoW decimates FFXIV with their new expansion—to the point sub numbers are the lowest they've been in years. Why? Because maybe the developers will wake up and do something.

This patch has made me look at my WoW Authenticator more and more as of late...

[Millen1]

My issue with SB relic. Eureka was this place you go and then everyone finds out you can do nothing for relic. Yoshi got mad and made changes. Next Yoshi did say they actually sat down and thought about a punishment system for Eureka before different changes were made. With Pagos, the place is a punishment. I know and expect a grind, not a punishment for playing content. I haven't been delelveled but I have been killed enough in places with few players that I have come close. I have stopped raising players not in my party cause I am not running out to some dumb place to possible get killed and delevel. The tight xp grind on the levels makes finding a party a pain and the only decent ones are fully of salt. No one is having fun.

The ARR relic, I did 3 of them per nerf and liked every part but the 11% drop rate dungeons. HW I did 7 or 8 relics but I played more jobs at the same time. I liked all of the grind for HW relics. The SB relic system just offends me. The first part failed cause you could afk to relic, the second part will fail due to the tight xp requirements and a lot of salt I have seen today. As for me, more likely than not I am done with the SB relic system. SE has lost my interest and instead of trying to fix it or go with a grind that works, he is doubling down on what currently sucks.

Oh, I forgot water takes the path of least resistance and Eureka show most players do too. Relic ilvl when we are done with this, i370. Here, now today for 1000 capped tomes, i370 tome weapon with no real challenge. If you went the tome weapon route, you already have an i370 weapon with far less grind. And both of them become obsolete mid sept in patch 4.4.

Hey Yoshi, this one finger salute is for you.

[ko_]

I admit my comment was abit too dismissive, I wasn't trying to be rude. But I feel like most times I see things like the title of the thread I'm like. " but that's every game ever. " I dunno, it gets old. Or maybe I'm just odd, but I didn't get bored with the first eureka, it wasnt perfect and I never said it was. But I guess I just expect less from games. The only issue I hope they fixed was the train but I dont think they did reading comments. I dont know how they could tho, but then again I say the same about hoh vs deep dungeon. I just never expected them to change it that much so when we got hoh i wasnt shocked or mad about it. But long story short I should just keep my mouth shut cause I never agree with most opinions anyway. It's hard for me to be disappointed with games.

[Yzuna]

I actually don't mind grinding.
I do it in game in general and did it A LOT in FFXI.
I've grind for merit point, I've grind for skill-up, I've camped some of the worst NM you can camp (beside HNM, never bothered with those) for hours and hours. And while it was tedious, I didn't mind that much.

But, first of all, it was rewarding. You knew you were either getting a very powefull item for your character, or you were shaping your character strengths.

Here, you do it mostly for glamour purpose. The weapon/armor you get are obsolete or will be in a matter of weeks.

Then, the gameplay wasn't the same.
For FFXI, it was a lot slower, meaning you could chat in between with your party/friends/LS etc.
And, you had to pay attention to when use your skills. It wasn't just blindly following a button mashing rotation. You had to buff, debuff, stun, silence, prepare weaponskills for Skillchain and maybe Magic Burst.
I will not say it was all good. It was repetitive at time also. But between the rewards and the gameplay being more about reacting to the ennemy and teaming with your party, it felt okay doing it.

Here, no matter the ennemy, I'll use the same skills over and over again. And I will grind for hours and hours for something that will be obsolete quickly, and nerf to the ground a few patchs later.

I'd much rather grind Trials, Dungeons, Raids. At least I have to pay attention to mechanics besides my boring rotation.

The relic chain quests I liked the most was the ARR one, at the beginning of the game. (even if it was too easy and too fast)
It was kind of difficult in the first weeks of the release, it involved many kind of content (Trials, a little grind, crafting, dungeons...). It was rewarding, and wasn't monotonous.

In Eureka, I actually enjoy the difficulty, the death penalty, and even though it lack polishing and is a little cranky, the elemental wheel.


But they can't make us grind trashmobs for hours and hours, when the gameplay isn't very enthralling, and the rewards far from making up to it.

The only issue I hope they fixed was the train but I dont think they did reading comments. I dont know how they could tho, but then again I say the same about hoh vs deep dungeon. I just never expected them to change it that much so when we got hoh i wasnt shocked or mad about it.

But they could have done it, if only they had listened to the community.

For HoH, they just had to widen the winning condition for a floor and make mob more aggressive/difficult. Again, stealing from FFXI's Nyzul Isle. It's not perfect, sure, but at least if would have been more varied.

People have been asking for harder 4 man content for years now. This could have been the way.

For Eureka, make the NM triggered by a item you use in a certain place. And the difficulty of the NM would depend on the item you had. NM you kill would then drop another item allowing you to fight a stronger NM elsewhere. This would be a group content as opposed to a train content. You could farm your item solo on mobs, in group or with your FC. Then for the strongest NM in the zone, you would want to make an alliance to defeat it.(hello 24 man content that is not a raid)
It's not perfect it certainly has it's flaws, but a system like this could very well be created in an aera like Eureka. You would still have a lot of people in there, not just all of them doing the same thing.

I'm not reinventing the wheel here, it exist in FFXI. Whether it's Sky, Sea or ZNM.

[Limecat]

If you're about to swallow your tongue now over the repetition, just wait until the next expansion when they use the exact same content cycle as 2/3/4.x a fourth time.

[Stormfur]

I don't mind grinding as long as it feels productive and feels like I'm making progress toward a goal. The thing about Pagos is that it feels more like we're being punished for finding the most efficient route to the given rewards. NM trains were probably NOT how the dev team envisioned us working on Anemos, but we did, and now it feels like we're being curb-stomped for doing what players do!

Are we just completely missing something? Are the JP forums content with this repetitive stuff with very little to show for it?