Friction between casuals and raiders - One Lala's weird trick, GMs hate her!

[Sebazy]

lolno, more of my posts is newer people chewing out the experience

It is that or kick abuse from premades where the premade might be not experienced or doing it to troll

Fair enough, I apologise for getting the wrong idea there <3

I defo agree with you on the kick abuse thing, I honestly think that open and overt abuse is pretty minimal these days due to the cut and dry manner in which GMs deal with it. Quietly group kicking someone because of a minor conflict of interests is a somewhat more frequent occurrence tho and I've got no clue how SE can address that TBH. It's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't

[storm]

This wouldn't work for a variety of reasons. One reason is mmr on Games like overwatch don't have as much to calculate to determine aptitude, because the game only has three real objectives. Don't die, kill the other team, move the payload.

The amount of variables you'd need to account for to blindly assess aptitude would be staggering. Does the mmr keep track of whether that ninja goaded the appropriate target at the right time?

Another reason, is overwatch mmr is a pvp based game, and the mmr exists to try and keep super players from stomping the other team. For your allies, it tries to balance weaker players with better players. Which is opposite of what you're suggesting. But pairing weaker players with better ones is good for the community. Because it provides a chance for players to learn by example, meaning the next time they run that dungeon they'll be better.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

A ranking system could be beneficial for individual parsing, if they ever implemented it. Unfortunately, that doesn't really apply to queues as a whole. The devs aim for accessibility and want veteran players to help newer comes while keeping queue times reasonable. While not a necessarily bad idea, this does precisely the opposite. It only encourages separation and could severely impact certain bits of content since the pool each roulette draws from becomes increasingly more shallow. Granted, I imagine you'd want the system to default to the closest equivalent in that case, but that still adds time. Even then, roulette are meant as a general activity. By queuing into them, you accept you may get bad players. If you're not willing to deal with that, you can queue with a pre-made party and solve the issue no problem.

[Sebazy]

The amount of variables you'd need to account for to blindly assess aptitude would be staggering.

Read the post a little more carefully please =(

It's getting frustrating with how many people are missing this core detail. Working off anything beyond a players average damage across the dungeon completely misses the point of this concept. It is NOT meant to be a gauge of a players skill, it also isn't meant to apply to anything other than Expert Roulette. Merely a simple guess at their preferred play style so that DF has a shot at putting more likeminded people together rather than the lottery we see today.

[storm]

In that case make it a selectable option in the duty finder, "speed run?"

No hidden variables guessing your play style needed.

[Sebazy]

To be fair, that would be a much simpler route to take.

[Ama_Hamada]

To be fair, that would be a much simpler route to take.

I would be willing to give it a try, but here is what I forsee happening:

It will go great at first, people picking the style that matches them. As time goes on, the normal option is going to start having longer queues. Then because of this everyone including newer players will start selecting speed run. Now because there is a division, once a new player is paired with elitists, that person will most likely be kicked off the bat. It would go into auguring, why did you pick speed run if you are new?

If we have speed runs have a higher ilevel requirement, then it still makes problems of the new people finding groups since people are obsessed with speed runs (look at my posts in regards of palace of the dead.) It really shocks me how people can show their true colors in specific situations. Shocked no one is motivated by taking 5 more minutes to complete a run just for the sake of helping someone, and instead turn around start mpking groups failing runs and making everyone have lost time.

[Paladinleeds]

It really shocks me how people can show their true colors in specific situations. Shocked no one is motivated by taking 5 more minutes to complete a run just for the sake of helping someone, and instead turn around start mpking groups failing runs and making everyone have lost time.

Yeah, this is what I don't get. You're wasting everybody's time including your own if you do that, for no real gain. You still haven't got your reward. Surely it'd be quicker to just accept it and roll with it? What drives people to become so petty over that?

[NessaWyvern]

Not necessarily.

When the first group took on Sastasha, they were ALL newbies. They eventually became the salty vet hardcore raiders the OP speaks of.

Newbies can learn from one another. I'd dare say (as the existence of veterans is testament to this) its the best way for them to learn. They can actually learn from real mistakes. Come up with plans, and overcome the challenges seeing with their own eyes what works and what doesn't.

Aye, I was here when ARR came out, and it was really fun, even with all the wipes.
Also, I am in the mindset that players need to learn how to play their class, and know the game with all it's aoes. Some people get carried and they don't end up learning what they should by the time they are doing end-game content. I think what OP is suggesting would help with it.

[KaldeaSahaline]

If we as a community practice patience and understanding. This wouldn't need to be an issue needing a solution.

This sentence screams bias against "raiders". If I'm a lower skilled player, who am I being patient or understanding with? Other lower skilled players? Ok fair enough - but this sentence does absolutely nothing to solve friction between player segments.

Here's my POV: When I queue up for content I don't expect people to play at my level, I do however expect every single player to try their best. Anything less than trying your best (in a team environment) is disrespectful to others.

You're asking me to "patient" & "understanding" with lower skilled players and I already am. In fact, most of us raiders really are. The problem is that a large portion of the people we get grouped with (if we don't filter you) have no respect for our time or effort.

There's a reason why in EVERY other format this behavior is very negatively viewed. At Work, in school/uni, sports, etc.

Sidebar - nearly ALL of my best experiences in this game are results of learning parties. It's where we all had the same goal, same general skill level/knowledge, and worked together to get it. It's organic and rewarding. It's this reason - why I support the segregation of playerbases (much like @Sebazy's) suggestion is trying to accomplish. I don't agree with the implementation referenced, but I fully support the concept.

Lets say you're in the mood to relax. You queue up now and the group wants to just blow though. Well.. that sort of ruined the mood a bit.

Why are you queueing up for battle content if you want to relax? I'll never understand this methodology.