Don't ask, don't tell - Relationship Thought Experiment

[FoxPaw]

Edit:
Doing some housekeeping.

What he said:

@Radial Absent -
To all the people taking offense at the terminology "lower bar of entry" you either don't understand the meaning or are just trying to find something to be outraged about. Gaming has historically been a niche hobby dominated by young men, requiring lots of specialized and expensive equipment. Now that gaming is becoming more mainstream with almost everyone having the devices needed to run games, the bars of entry have been lowered, resulting in more gamers of ALL types, including women and different age groups not previously part of the niche.This is the same old story from every new media type, just like film and tv was niche among their respective nerds, but now is almost universal.

All these anecdotes from women who have been gamers from the beginning, no one is attacking you or your identity? This data and history doesn't mean there was never girl gamers or older gamers, only that they were less common, its not an insult to be a minority of a market demographic..... You could maybe argue sexism on gender norms of the times pushing for the disparity, but that doesn't make anyone who acknowledges this data or history a sexist.

To all the people with comments along the lines of "implication from your initial post that female players in the game are there to be "selected" by male players for relationships. You speak like they are targets, not fellow players." Where is OP advocating for this behavior or saying its ok? OP is just making an observation, which is confirmed by many other posts in this thread about the reality of tons o thirsty dudes targeting girls regardless if they are "real" or "faux". and no faux girl is not transphobic, its talking about G.I.R.L. its a meme for a reason.

To OP, just abandon ship, never engage these type of people, especially when worked into a feeding frenzy. and maybe work on your chronic foot in mouth lol.

[Super_Bee_Brian]

I disagree when you said that people subconsciously wonder if whether or not the relationship turns REAL.

What about roleplayers at Mateus and Balmung who do it SOLELY for the in game experience?

[Azurymber]

1. Not everyone is a straight white male. Servers like Balmung and certain Korean servers prob have equal gender ratios.

2. Relationship disappointment effects everyone, generally in the same way. No one likes being lied to or led on.

3. If someone identifies as a girl, they are a "real girl". Acting like someone isn't a real girl because they were born male is transphobic. It's not every trans person's responsibility to wear a sign around telling you they used to be a diff gender.

4. It's not hard to discuss relationship boundaries. And there is nothing wrong with not disclosing your gender online. If person X isn't committing to a relationship with person Y, then person X has no reason to disclose their gender. If you need to know someones gender to be friends with them, it's a bit messed up. Especially if as a male, you're only investing in said friendship because you expect the female to give you something "more" than friendship. And if you are getting angry/frustrated because someone you like isn't reciprocating those feelings, you're acting entitled.

This entire post seems to try and justify some sexist idea of online relationships.

Online relationships are simple: treat them like real ones, if that's what you are looking for. Be honest with each other, and discuss boundaries. Not complicated.

Additionally, "real girls" don't exist online as objects for guys to try and "hook up with"

[MoroMurasaki]

I wanted to respond to this very delicately because I don't intend to offend you or make you feel like your thought on this doesn't matter. Clearly it's something you've sunk considerable time into thinking about.

I just don't think that this sort of expectation is a healthy thing to have, and I say this as someone who was in an online relationship as a kid. I met someone and we talked every day over AIM/MSN messenger and eventually he asked me to be his "official" girlfriend. I would ask him about talking on the phone sometimes since it seemed reasonable enough, I even offered to give him my phone number and everything so he could know I wasn't some crazy person who was going to stalk him.

Turns out the reason he never wanted to take our conversations out of text was because "he" was a girl. We wound up having a big emotional blowup when he told me. He (she? Its weird, still he in my head) wound up calling me after a few hours. Explained his feelings. I tried to be sympathetic but I had sunk so much time and emotion into this person and it just hurt to know that it was all for nothing.

I even tried to convince myself that I could try being bi because it seemed like changing my sexuality would be eaiser than giving up a relationship I had been in for a year. It was really messed up, it caused us both a lot of stress and sadly now we don't even talk. He can't see me as just a friend and I can't forget how shitty he made me feel.

I feel like the system you're advocating for is almost guaranteed to create these sort of situations en-masse and as someone who was in one I would hate for that to happen.

When people can separate RP from irl by all means go wild with it but this is almost calling for you to have a way to blur those lines. I think it could lead to a lot of sad people and broken hearts.

Again, I don't mean to be harsh or anything, just wanted to voice my opinion.

[SargentToughie]

What about roleplayers at Mateus and Balmung who do it SOLELY for the in game experience?

I'm as shocked as anybody else to report that I actually agree with this comment.

Jillian's eventually going to get EB-ed, but I and the writer of her partner don't have any kind of out-of-game relationship that would warrant things getting weird in the way that OP is suggesting. It's just a logical end point to what had been years of character development and relationship building.

I don't personally derive any value, as the writer, for anything that my character gains or does. That said, this only really applies to roleplayers. I imagine that the implication is pretty different if you don't partake in that fairly niche hobby.

Different strokes, man. People are different, and I bet a lot of people just wanna get EBed for the easy teleports, emote, and mount. Best not to read too far into it.

[MoroMurasaki]

ugh

I don't know where you got virtually all of this. The guy isn't being sexist or transphobic. I really wish the social justice would get off of the forums.

[Azurymber]

I don't know where you got virtually all of this. The guy isn't being sexist or transphobic. I really wish the social justice would get off of the forums.

OP specifically claims the majority of ppl are straight males:
"Honestly I think a don’t ask, don’t tell policy would be far better for the majority of people here (being straight males)."

OP refers to trans individuals as "faux female" and separates them from "real girls"

OP describes male goals as identifying "real girls" and "hooking up with them":
"I think people assumed if they could identify the “real girls” they’d stand a better chance of hooking up with them. "

I'm not being an SJW. Just pointing out that the entire post is grounded in some misguided idea that girls exist on the internet for guys to form sexual relationships with.

If people get into a serious relationship then they should be honest with each other.
If people aren't in a serious relationship, gender should not matter.
No one should be calling trans individuals fake, or expecting them to disclose their biological sex to every person they meet.

[HyoMinPark]

OP refers to trans individuals as "faux female" and separates them from "real girls"

Maybe it’s because it’s late and I’m missing this, but where is he specifically referring to transgendered individuals as “faux female”? Are you sure he’s not referring to the G.I.R.L. players (i.e., they play a female character, but they’re actually a guy in real life)?

Again, maybe I’m missing this because it’s late, and I did read and reread the OP about 5 times, but...


That being said, I don’t think it’s a health expectation to have if you are seeking for Eternal Bond ceremonies to be something more than a virtual wedding ceremony. There is a reason why my character has been bonded to a friend that I know well, and to a friend who I know will not blur the lines because I do not want to be in a situation like that. I know some people seek online relationships and companionship, and that’s fine... but I don’t think it should be a default expectation of Eternal Bonding.

[KisaiTenshi]

Oh where to start.

I’ve been trying to find an in game partner for the Eternal Bonding Ceremony (EB), rather that is to say I’ve been using the EB as a pretext for my search for… companionship? I’m not exactly sure what I’m after, which troubles me a little. However; I think most people can relate based on the dozens of bio’s I’ve read.

Not recommended, I'm speaking from personal experience, being on the recieving end of a video game marraige that I thought was RP, and they thought was... some kind of commitment and they subsequently exhibited all the "jealous boyfriend" traits. You know, like getting pissed off when you play with anyone but them, and aren't online when they are. I'm not suggesting that everyone is like this, because I know of people who met their bff online and are perfectly happy with it. But don't do a video game marriage just for whatever the video game offers you as a bonus, nor do it to seek actual real world companionship, because both of those kinds of activities warrant telling them up front what your goal is, lest they become one-sided miserable things that someone quits over.

I noticed a lot of ambiguousness around expectations for the relationship when it came to real life gender and the implications that has around sex and whether or not the in-game relationship has the potential to develop into the real world.

There is not as much ambiguousness as you may think. A gender label is something someone provides for your convenience of not making awkward conversations. It's not a sorting hat, someone is free to say they're as much or as little of one gender they feel is appropriate, and can change that under circumstances that is not under their control. Someone may tell you they are a man or a woman, because it's a lot less awkward than describing one of the hundred alternate flavors that require explanations that maybe their new friend might get spooked away with.

Twitter and Tumblr, "your pronouns" is a current trendy thing, and while it does help the goal of recognizing a non-binary gender, and helps trans people not get dead-named, it also paints a large "not interested in relationship" sign as well. Some people can be NB or Bi, or Ace and still have normal interests in relationships, they just might not have sex or families as the end game.

(...cut justification...)

I don't know, am I crazy? What do you think...

It doesn't matter who is on the other side of the avatar if there is never any intention to meet, or communicate outside the game. Once you cross that communication line, you've invited any personal matter into the virtual relationship, regardless if you wanted it or not.

I personally think it's a mistake to seek a real life relationship from a video game (or online in general,) because you open yourself to being scammed. I'm not talking about being catfished either, but actually becoming a victim of identity theft. People are free to try it, but it ranks lower than "dating sites" and "dating apps" as far as safety goes. Even those are terrible for meeting people as they're oriented around matching people by superficial things. If you ever read the descriptions on dating sites or apps, you'll often see "serious relationship only" on womens profiles, because the first 10 minutes of being on the site will get a hundred random horndogs wanting to send pics of things best not mentioned.

Any real real relationship that forms online will be organic, it shouldn't have to be forced. Hence asking for a "don't ask, don't tell" is saying "Not interested"

[MoroMurasaki]

snip

Where does the OP ever mention trans women at all? I just reread the entire post and still see no mention of them. If you think "faux females" is referring to transwomen you are likely mistaken, it's probably referring to the fairly commom situation of men playing female characters and flirting with other characters. I know someone who does this and has even extorted gil this way.

The overwhelming majority of people that play video games are male. The overwhelming majority of males are straight. This game might have a bit more diversity in these categories than some other MMOs but I would bet my account that the majority of players are still straight men.

I think you've read into all these things in exactly the wrong way and even if it wasn't your intent it very much fits the SJW narrative of everything being about gender or some sort of discrimination even when it clearly isn't.