Don't ask, don't tell - Relationship Thought Experiment

[MoroMurasaki]

ugh

I don't know where you got virtually all of this. The guy isn't being sexist or transphobic. I really wish the social justice would get off of the forums.

[Azurymber]

I don't know where you got virtually all of this. The guy isn't being sexist or transphobic. I really wish the social justice would get off of the forums.

OP specifically claims the majority of ppl are straight males:
"Honestly I think a don’t ask, don’t tell policy would be far better for the majority of people here (being straight males)."

OP refers to trans individuals as "faux female" and separates them from "real girls"

OP describes male goals as identifying "real girls" and "hooking up with them":
"I think people assumed if they could identify the “real girls” they’d stand a better chance of hooking up with them. "

I'm not being an SJW. Just pointing out that the entire post is grounded in some misguided idea that girls exist on the internet for guys to form sexual relationships with.

If people get into a serious relationship then they should be honest with each other.
If people aren't in a serious relationship, gender should not matter.
No one should be calling trans individuals fake, or expecting them to disclose their biological sex to every person they meet.

[HyoMinPark]

OP refers to trans individuals as "faux female" and separates them from "real girls"

Maybe it’s because it’s late and I’m missing this, but where is he specifically referring to transgendered individuals as “faux female”? Are you sure he’s not referring to the G.I.R.L. players (i.e., they play a female character, but they’re actually a guy in real life)?

Again, maybe I’m missing this because it’s late, and I did read and reread the OP about 5 times, but...


That being said, I don’t think it’s a health expectation to have if you are seeking for Eternal Bond ceremonies to be something more than a virtual wedding ceremony. There is a reason why my character has been bonded to a friend that I know well, and to a friend who I know will not blur the lines because I do not want to be in a situation like that. I know some people seek online relationships and companionship, and that’s fine... but I don’t think it should be a default expectation of Eternal Bonding.

[Azurymber]

Maybe it’s because it’s late and I’m missing this, but where is he specifically referring to transgendered individuals as “faux female”? Are you sure he’s not referring to the G.I.R.L. players (i.e., they play a female character, but they’re actually a guy in real life)?

Again, maybe I’m missing this because it’s late, and I did read and reread the OP about 5 times, but...

This line:
"Eventually, things in-game would reach a tipping point where the “faux female” would have to disclose their real world gender."

If 2 individuals aren't in a relationship, and someone has to disclose their "real gender" to get the other person to back off, that's indicative of male entitlement. The expectation that if you like someone, they -should- have to reciprocate because you "invested" time into them.

Alternatively if they -are- in a relationship with person X who discloses they are a different gender than they previously said, then they are probably trans and being courteous and honest with their partner.

I mean it's possible that a gay individual lies about their gender to date another person of the same-sex. But that seems kind of pointless. And if that's the case, it's not an issue of gender disclosure. It's an issue of honesty.
And it's also possible a "guy in real life" pretends to be a girl to get gil and stuff from people (which again, is an issue of honesty).

But there isn't really any situation why someone's gender matters, unless you're in an intimate/serious relationship with them.

[HyoMinPark]

This line:
"Eventually, things in-game would reach a tipping point where the “faux female” would have to disclose their real world gender."

Mmm, still sounds to me like they’re talking more about males that play female characters as opposed to transgendered individuals. Because it sounds almost like they are assuming that the person would be the same gender as their character (in this case, female), but the reality is, is they are actually a male. That’s how I interpreted it anyways. I didn’t jump to an attack on transgendered players; my mind just didn’t go there. The OP can clarify what they meant if they come back to the thread.

[Azurymber]

Mmm, still sounds to me like they’re talking more about males that play female characters as opposed to transgendered individuals. Because it sounds almost like they are assuming that the person would be the same gender as their character (in this case, female), but the reality is, is they are actually a male. That’s how I interpreted it anyways. I didn’t jump to an attack on transgendered players; my mind just didn’t go there. The OP can clarify what they meant if they come back to the thread.

That's possible.
But then it speaks to sexism and male "entitlement".
Because then the idea is that every female has to be a "potential hook up" or they have no value.
For example, if you only cared about making friends, gender is irrelevant for the most part.

The only reason gender matters is if you want to form a "more than friends" relationship.
And if that's the case, you can literally just ask the persons gender.

[HyoMinPark]

That's possible.
But then it speaks to sexism and male "entitlement".
Because then the idea is that every female has to be a "potential hook up" or they have no value.
For example, if you only cared about making friends, gender is irrelevant for the most part.

The only reason gender matters is if you want to form a "more than friends" relationship.
And if that's the case, you can literally just ask the persons gender.

I will just repeat what I said in response to the OP’s premise — I don’t think it’s healthy to expect anything deeper from an Eternal Bonding ceremony than a virtual ceremony. It’s not healthy to expect IRL relationships to bloom from it; they will happen if they are meant to happen. But forcing them or expecting them is not healthy, in my opinion, and it’s the reason why my character is bonded to someone I know won’t blur the lines, despite them being the opposite gender of myself IRL.

I already disagreed with the premise; do not mistake me saying his words didn’t come off as an attack against transgendered players as me saying he’s “correct” in this.

[MoroMurasaki]

That's possible.
But then it speaks to sexism and male "entitlement".
Because then the idea is that every female has to be a "potential hook up" or they have no value.
For example, if you only cared about making friends, gender is irrelevant for the most part.

The only reason gender matters is if you want to form a "more than friends" relationship.
And if that's the case, you can literally just ask the persons gender.

Where are you getting this crap? Male entitlement? How does not wanting to enter into what some players view as a semblance of a real relationship with a person from a gender they're not attracted to equate to some kind of entitlement? This is insane.

Where does anyone imply women who aren't potential hook ups don't have value? Seriously are you even reading the same things everyone else is?

1. This only works if you are ok with it being in-game and in text only. Never being able to call the person you like or hear them on discord is a large burden. No real life visits, no video chats. Text or nothing.
2. Not every female avatar is by someone who wants to be a woman in an eternal bond relationship, or to be treated as a woman in general.
3. You are asking for people to enter into unconsummatable love. That has its own pain, and you have to be okay with sort of a half-love; knowing it can never go beyond a certain step.

Very much agreed. This is a good summary of the caution I suggested in my original post here.

[Magic-Mal]

That's possible.
But then it speaks to sexism and male "entitlement".
Because then the idea is that every female has to be a "potential hook up" or they have no value.
For example, if you only cared about making friends, gender is irrelevant for the most part.

The only reason gender matters is if you want to form a "more than friends" relationship.
And if that's the case, you can literally just ask the persons gender.

Here's the thing about all of this.. I get what you're saying and agree but I think you're taking it a bit far or what the OP said the wrong way.

I actually agree with the thought that many guys out there seem to require the player to be female IRL just to be "just friends" and to me, it definitely just shows that there must be some type of secondary desire they want(Real life relationship or falling in love). In other words, confirming that a person is a real female gives the pass to go on full chase mode, which shouldn't be happening. I do think that's messed up. For friendship the gender shouldn't even matter especially if people can supposedly "act like girls" so well. I see these things happen all the time on the marriage thread. Girls are often chased/weirded out after they are bombarded with responses after they type up a profile and they never return lol. Meanwhile, the guys keep returning literally every month!

People should not be marrying with expectations of something real happening someday and if they do, they need to be upfront about it and maybe a lady who is okay with a possible RL relationship will give them a chance. Oh and people(mainly guys) need to stop falling in love with every female character so quickly. At least get to know the person first.

To OP: With so many women on this game who play female characters(Look at this thread itself), guys have to think twice about the gender of the person before writing them off as a male because then they won't ever know. So your idea of not assuming immediately isn't a wrong one. But... maybe the high female population is a double-edged sword now. Guys straight up harassing people, male or female on female characters because the chances of them actually being female is so high these days.

[MoroMurasaki]

snip

Where does the OP ever mention trans women at all? I just reread the entire post and still see no mention of them. If you think "faux females" is referring to transwomen you are likely mistaken, it's probably referring to the fairly commom situation of men playing female characters and flirting with other characters. I know someone who does this and has even extorted gil this way.

The overwhelming majority of people that play video games are male. The overwhelming majority of males are straight. This game might have a bit more diversity in these categories than some other MMOs but I would bet my account that the majority of players are still straight men.

I think you've read into all these things in exactly the wrong way and even if it wasn't your intent it very much fits the SJW narrative of everything being about gender or some sort of discrimination even when it clearly isn't.