Ninja, The problem job and some ideas to change it.

[Grimoire-M]

Having not played a lot of NIN, it seems to me that the real problem is that Mudras get interrupted by using other abilities imo. If you remove rabbits and allow GCD usage/movement between TCJ then the class would flow a lot better, wouldn't it?

[Shamox]

I would want for trick attack to get registered faster (Idk if it's just me, but that ability seems like it has more startup than the usual ability)

It indeed takes sometimes to apply the vulnerability, usually between 0.4sc to 0.8sc I'd say, even more if you're playing with a high latency, this is the main reason most people tends to avoid double weaving Trick Attack and Duality as there is a slight chance that your Duality AE will register before the Vulnerability is applied. But that's really when your ping is not good and is inconsistent.

[Selvokaz]

The only thing Ninja needs right now is to roll Armor Crush in to Aeolian Edge, it's a waste of space to have Armor Crush as a third combo weapon skill combo ender.

[Grimoire-M]

The only thing Ninja needs right now is to roll Armor Crush in to Aeolian Edge, it's a waste of space to have Armor Crush as a third combo weapon skill combo ender.

1) It's a flank finisher, which sometimes make it better than Aeolian depending on positioning.
2) Aeolian does more damage than Armor Crush, because Armor Crush increases the Huton timer.

Armor Crush has its purpose. There is no sense in removing it unless you plan to change NIN even further. Just removing it isn't good enough.

[Selvokaz]

1) It's a flank finisher, which sometimes make it better than Aeolian depending on positioning.
2) Aeolian does more damage than Armor Crush, because Armor Crush increases the Huton timer.

Armor Crush has its purpose. There is no sense in removing it unless you plan to change NIN even further. Just removing it isn't good enough.

I didn't say just remove it I said roll it into Aeolian Edge, is me saying Fuse it into one attack. Aeolian Edge already has a rear combo bonus, all you are getting from armor crush alone is the increase to futon duration, hence my suggestion again Fuse Armor Crush with Aeolian Edge so that Aeolian Edge does what Armor Crush does and drop Armor Crush.

Basically it boils down to the futon duration being uses as a unnecessary anchor to justify armor crush's existence, as we move forward new skills are going to be added to the classes, fusing armor crush into aeolian edge is the most logical design choice to lessen the rotation bloat of ninja as new skills and abilities are added, we are about to get a increase in role action slots, which means peoples optimal rotations is going to increase anyway. I don't how to simply this enough, adding the benefit of Armor Crush to Aeolian Edge just makes more sense.

[Dzian]

I didn't say just remove it I said roll it into Aeolian Edge, is me saying Fuse it into one attack. Aeolian Edge already has a rear combo bonus, all you are getting from armor crush alone is the increase to futon duration, hence my suggestion again Fuse Armor Crush with Aeolian Edge so that Aeolian Edge does what Armor Crush does and drop Armor Crush.

Basically it boils down to the futon duration being uses as a unnecessary anchor to justify armor crush's existence, as we move forward new skills are going to be added to the classes, fusing armor crush into aeolian edge is the most logical design choice to lessen the rotation bloat of ninja as new skills and abilities are added, we are about to get a increase in role action slots, which means peoples optimal rotations is going to increase anyway. I don't how to simply this enough, adding the benefit of Armor Crush to Aeolian Edge just makes more sense.

The problem You have there is it's incredibly easy to apply that logic to everything. Why does not merge storms eye and storms path into one. 2 seperate ends to the same combo why not just merge the effects.

Or twin snakes and true strike. Or well just about anything really.

My only issue with armor crush is the name doesn't fit.

Logically I'd say arnor crush should be called shadow fang. Because shadow fang is actually the skill that "crushes" the mobs arnor by reducing it's slashing reistance. It's a small nit pick but makes more sense than calling a skill arnor crush when it has no impact on the targets armor

[Selvokaz]

Aeolian Edge doesn't carry any special effect (not including position bonus) unlike Shadow Fang and Armor Crush, it just hits hard, but compared to the other two you could argue it could use a secondary special effect so again my idea stands, it can absorb Armor Crush and kill two birds with one stone. I personally don't see any of your arguments making sense, it's like you want the class to be clumsy for the sake of it being clumsy, because it doesn't add more skill. You're not a better ninja because you have to work in a 3rd rotation of the weapon skills. My idea improves your DPS where as keeping armor crush as it is only hurts your DPS over all.

[Megguido]

All melees have positionals, NIN is no exception. Unless SE decides to make it different, all melees have rear and side positionals on several abilities. So remove Armor Crush, and you basically just have to stick to the enemy's butt 100% of the time.

DRG also has a DoT/debuff combo (Chaos Thrust), and a plain damage combo (Full Thrust).
NIN's Armor Crush is pretty much the same thing as SAM's Shifu: a 30s haste buff.

Imo, pressing sometimes 1-2-4 instead of 1-2-3 doesn't add a lot of depth to the gameplay. But in this case it forces you to deal with positionals and move to the side, then back to the rear, which adds a layer of player's skill. Get rid of Armor Crush and you make NIN easier to play, not only "less clumsy". Not that it's necessarily a bad idea, NIN is hard to play (for me at least QQ)

[Selvokaz]

All melees have positionals, NIN is no exception. Unless SE decides to make it different, all melees have rear and side positionals on several abilities. So remove Armor Crush, and you basically just have to stick to the enemy's butt 100% of the time.

DRG also has a DoT/debuff combo (Chaos Thrust), and a plain damage combo (Full Thrust).
NIN's Armor Crush is pretty much the same thing as SAM's Shifu: a 30s haste buff.

Imo, pressing sometimes 1-2-4 instead of 1-2-3 doesn't add a lot of depth to the gameplay. But in this case it forces you to deal with positionals and move to the side, then back to the rear, which adds a layer of player's skill. Get rid of Armor Crush and you make NIN easier to play, not only "less clumsy". Not that it's necessarily a bad idea, NIN is hard to play (for me at least QQ)

The flanking bonus is a unnecessary complexity that isn't even all that important since you'll only ever need to use Armor Crush once every 70 seconds. At this point at least in regards to Ninja the DEVs have to see that tacking on flanking to Armor crush was nothing more than a lazy attempt to make it relevant because what they are about to do is going to and for those of us who kind of know better already do, True North negates the the need for positioning and since it recharges fairly quickly 150s, you'll need to reply Armor Crush once or twice before it recharges. flanking just for that small bit of extra damage is negated. Again to me the smart thing to do is just fuse Armor Crush into Aeolian Edge after someone becomes a ninja, in fact make it a level X trait that you can learn after you are taught Futon. There now you can keep Armor crush but it's now a trait rather than a weapon skill, it applies all the same benefits it already does but only when you use Aeolian Edge as a ninja of X level. Also I never argued that ninja wasn't a complex job, in fact i made a list on another thread and Ninja is listed under intermediate level, when it comes to the amount of skill needed to work the job passably.

[Megguido]

The flanking bonus is a unnecessary complexity that isn't even all that important since you'll only ever need to use Armor Crush once every 70 seconds.

Kinda makes me think you don't actually play NIN at lvl 70. Hûton duration is 70s at maximum, but Armor Crush extends it by 30 seconds. You have to use Armor Crush every 30 seconds or so, not every 70 seconds. You can, however, use Hûton every 70s if you wish, but you lose a ninjutsu in the process.

True North negates the the need for positioning and since it recharges fairly quickly 150s, you'll need to reply Armor Crush once or twice before it recharges.

lulz. As I said, you want to use Armor Crush every 30s (so you maintain Hûton duration between 30s and 60s basically, but if you wait until there's like 10s on Hûton, Armor Crush will only extend it to 40s, not 70s). So two things here, first True North should be used in phases where you cannot perform positionals, not because of laziness. Second, True North's cooldown is long, and you could fit only one or two Armor Crush in its duration, and like 4 or 5 out of it. Why using True North when you can just move a little bit on the side instead ?

If you use Armor Crush every 70s, you're going to lose Hûton a lot. Fusing it with Aeolian Edge simply makes NIN easier, you don't have to manage Hûton gauge (since Aeolian is already spammed), you don't have to actually move away from the boss' rear