Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

[JunseiKei]

Welcome to SE's logic? That is how we got forced MSQ cs and removal of feast chat.

To be fair, the Feast chat was absolutely horrendous. I can't believe some of the messages that were being sent when SE was pushing Feast really hard. Screenshots from friends from what they experienced, just from lapse of judgement on their part. The vetern XIV PvPers were not at all friendly by any means to having new blood competing if they were stuck with them on the same team.

I mean jeeze, I remember a friend being upset and posting a screenshot of someone telling her to uninstall and hang herself because of a loss. Told her to report the player, but the fact it was even said is just astonishing.

About the topic, I don't care about parses. I take issue when people use it as a leaderboard or to bar people from content they can do. In some other thread, I had talked about Aether having a few PFs with number/log requirements to join. People came back and said they've been online all week or something and said they never saw anything. I hadn't taken screenshots because I generally don't for those sorts of things and my comment basically got talked down to a 'pic or it didn't happen' status.

Late, but they do exist:

This was earlier today on Aether. This is the kind of stuff as to what makes me not like parsing (actually, it's more FFLogs than parsing, because of the leaderboard-like settings that some people seem to like pushing). I fully expect a 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party' statement to be typed, or something to do with play styles. My main point to this particular screenshot is to have grey DPS means you have cleared the fight (it just means you might not have had a particularly good comp to boost your numbers) or haven't quite the gear to get better numbers. That speaks nothing of your competence. :\

[Jijifli]

I do want to make note that, if the only thing they are going to look at is your dps number and go, "It's gray, you're instantly garbage" then no, they aren't a party you want to be in. Someone did actually upload a gray parse, as my only one, for O6 on BLM, and people were kicking me out of O7 parties the same day over it. But nobody wanted to check, which I easily learned how to, that I died to pains from the warrior and remained dead for 1/5 of the fight. And according to the same data, I was averaging over 6k dps, which for BLM according to the site, is ~70%, which is colored in blue.

Though, I am a BLM. This party probably didn't even allow one to join. And as for the O7 kicking, the only one that finally didn't this week killed it instantly, and said they did check, and saw I was dead for 2 straight minutes and still managed over 4k. XD

[Ultima]

To be fair, the Feast chat was absolutely horrendous. I can't believe some of the messages that were being sent when SE was pushing Feast really hard. Screenshots from friends from what they experienced, just from lapse of judgement on their part. The vetern XIV PvPers were not at all friendly by any means to having new blood competing if they were stuck with them on the same team.

I mean jeeze, I remember a friend being upset and posting a screenshot of someone telling her to uninstall and hang herself because of a loss. Told her to report the player, but the fact it was even said is just astonishing.

About the topic, I don't care about parses. I take issue when people use it as a leaderboard or to bar people from content they can do. In some other thread, I had talked about Aether having a few PFs with number/log requirements to join. People came back and said they've been online all week or something and said they never saw anything. I hadn't taken screenshots because I generally don't for those sorts of things and my comment basically got talked down to a 'pic or it didn't happen' status.

Late, but they do exist:

This was earlier today on Aether. This is the kind of stuff as to what makes me not like parsing (actually, it's more FFLogs than parsing, because of the leaderboard-like settings that some people seem to like pushing). I fully expect a 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party' statement to be typed, or something to do with play styles. My main point to this particular screenshot is to have grey DPS means you have cleared the fight (it just means you might not have had a particularly good comp to boost your numbers) or haven't quite the gear to get better numbers. That speaks nothing of your competence. :\

You get grey DPS by underperforming or repeatedly dying. You can have decent gear and a mediocre comp and still achieve a decent rating on the parse. They're free to make what rules they want on their PF entry, that's the entire point of having the freedom to make your own PF whenever you want. If they're going to look at like one grey log from one clear with someone dying a bunch or whatever to get a grey parse then they're not people you want to associate with. The same thing everyone has said already. The tool doesn't make someone into an asshole, they were already an asshole and they would've found another way to judge people. They would've cranked up the item level and then people would post a screenshot saying the item level is too high.

Be thankful they even checked the parse, they could've enforced a meta comp and then people would complain they can't go as SAM or BLM or whatever, there will always be a new thing for someone to blame or exclude. Be thankful this time it's something that can be factchecked. Repeated grey parses? No good. A grey or a few greys where you can identify it wasn't their fault? Fine. People have the right to decide who is in their party for whatever reason they want - even your choice of race and job combo.

[Shurrikhan]

You get grey DPS by underperforming or repeatedly dying. You can have decent gear and a mediocre comp and still achieve a decent rating on the parse. They're free to make what rules they want on their PF entry, that's the entire point of having the freedom to make your own PF whenever you want. If they're going to look at like one grey log from one clear with someone dying a bunch or whatever to get a grey parse then they're not people you want to associate with. The same thing everyone has said already. The tool doesn't make someone into an asshole, they were already an asshole and they would've found another way to judge people. They would've cranked up the item level and then people would post a screenshot saying the item level is too high.

Be thankful they even checked the parse, they could've enforced a meta comp and then people would complain they can't go as SAM or BLM or whatever, there will always be a new thing for someone to blame or exclude. Be thankful this time it's something that can be factchecked. Repeated grey parses? No good. A grey or a few greys where you can identify it wasn't their fault? Fine. People have the right to decide who is in their party for whatever reason they want - even your choice of race and job combo.

This. While I may find checking fflogs silly for the time being, as 90% of many people's parses are going to be from trap parties or other runs they did not themselves publish, while yet other parses are inflated with only those players' best of best runs, it is at least far fairer than estimating potential to clear something solely off (1) item level, (2) meta composition, or worse (3) former clears (e.g. you're locked out from joining the party creator's clear... unless you've already cleared, and are therefore basically just helping...).

[JunseiKei]

You get grey DPS by underperforming or repeatedly dying.

You're basically saying that it doesn't matter you can clear the fight, only that you perform to a percentile that you choose.

Like I said, I fully expected the responses of 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party,' but it undermines the way was intended to play because of...

... a third party leader-board.

Looking at RDM top 400 slots for God Kefka, I see a bunch of people with mixtures of DRG, BRD, and NIN. When you're comparing that against someone else's team, like mine which is the 'worst' composition, SAM, MNK, BLM and RDM, the numbers are highly skewed and misleading. You may end up doing things that hinder your own personal DPS for better raid DPS (like the timing of embolden or raising other people because you have the MP and the dualcast feature). Also, take into account gear people have (some re-run with better/ maxed out gear for better scores, further skewing the perception acceptable and what isn't). My point here is it is not simply 'underperformance' or 'dying' that leads to these percentile rankings and then having people, like the above, make misguided requirements. People don't care that you can simply clear the fight at that point.

Again, that's why I'm more against the leader-board aspect of FFLogs, rather than parsing and the rest of FFLogs. FFLogs has a great feature to help you optimize and show you exactly where you went wrong. That's fine, in my opinion.

EDIT:
At one point farming NeoExdeath, raid members told me 'Look Xo, you get a 90 percentile on RDM! Isn't that awesome?' I told them, 'No. I can't even feel great about it. I did the exact same things as normal, the only thing different is we picked up a bard (and I think we had an AST, I can't quite recall). It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with utility.' (It's since been bumped down because I don't think I went back in to farm 'cause I got everything I wanted. If that parse was even kept up since that person left.)

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Late, but they do exist:

This was earlier today on Aether. This is the kind of stuff as to what makes me not like parsing (actually, it's more FFLogs than parsing, because of the leaderboard-like settings that some people seem to like pushing). I fully expect a 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party' statement to be typed, or something to do with play styles. My main point to this particular screenshot is to have grey DPS means you have cleared the fight (it just means you might not have had a particularly good comp to boost your numbers) or haven't quite the gear to get better numbers. That speaks nothing of your competence. :\

Grey parses typically mean you are woefully undergeared and/or have died numerous times. Given they restricted the ilvl, someone with greys joining who's simply new is unlikely. Even in the scenario they are, people are entitled to want quick weekly clears. I don't mind helping, but sometimes, I simply want to blitz through weeklies either because I have other things to do or don't really want to clear but need books. Adding in-game parsers wouldn't change anything. If messages like that were banned, people can easily look up your logs and silently kick you.

[Yeol]

Late, but they do exist:

This was earlier today on Aether. This is the kind of stuff as to what makes me not like parsing (actually, it's more FFLogs than parsing, because of the leaderboard-like settings that some people seem to like pushing). I fully expect a 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party' statement to be typed, or something to do with play styles. My main point to this particular screenshot is to have grey DPS means you have cleared the fight (it just means you might not have had a particularly good comp to boost your numbers) or haven't quite the gear to get better numbers. That speaks nothing of your competence. :\

Many people do not know how to use FFlogs sadly. Also, this party clearly wanted a WAR that knew what he was doing.

Just a side note:
Lets say that the best MCH parse is 6,3k, and the worst MCH parse is 6k (Not too far from each other, only 300 dps difference).
The first MCH is going have a yellow parse (100%) while the second MCH is going to have a gray parse. But both players are actually good. the small difference could be because of party comp.

Percentiles mean nothing if the dps numbers are close to each other. People should look at things that matter (Active time, cpm, etc..)

You see this alot in Ultimate logs. Where everyone clears it but some end up having gray/green parses. This does not mean that they are bad players.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Many people do not know how to use FFlogs sadly. Also, this party clearly wanted a WAR that knew what he was doing.

Just a side note:
Lets say that the best MCH parse is 6,3k, and the worst MCH parse is 6k (Not too far from each other, only 300 dps difference).
The first MCH is going have a yellow parse (100%) while the second MCH is going to have a gray parse. But both players are actually good. the small difference could be because of party comp.

Percentiles mean nothing if the dps numbers are close to each other. People should look at things that matter (Active time, cpm, etc..)

You see this alot in Ultimate logs. Where everyone clears it but some end up having gray/green parses. This does not mean that they are bad players.

While I understand the overall point you're trying to make, your example is grossly exaggerated. Currently, the difference between the top ranked MCH (6,900) and a grey one is 2,000 DPS. I had to back track to 1951th place on God Kefka's ranking to finally find a grey ranked MCH. A 300 DPS difference is purple against orange, not orange against grey.

Ultimate logs are a very skewed example size due to how few clears are. Not to mention, many people don't optimize nearly to the same extent because of how demanding that content is. Some only clear once or twice, thus the results are even more skewed. Basically, it's not a good sample source to determine how percentages reflect skill on FFlogs.

[Yeol]

While I understand the overall point you're trying to make, your example is grossly exaggerated. Currently, the difference between the top ranked MCH (6,900) and a grey one is 2,000 DPS. I had to back track to 1951th place on God Kefka's ranking to finally find a grey ranked MCH. A 300 DPS difference is purple against orange, not orange against grey.

Ultimate logs are a very skewed example size due to how few clears are. Not to mention, many people don't optimize nearly to the same extent because of how demanding that content is. Some only clear once or twice, thus the results are even more skewed. Basically, it's not a good sample source to determine how percentages reflect skill on FFlogs.

This is example was just to deliver the message to people who have no idea how to analyze logs and only look at percentiles.
I never said that this is what is currently happening.

Since a lot of people just look at your color and decide whether to keep you in their party or not. Ignoring the factors that affect it.

[Vstarstruck]

To be fair, the Feast chat was absolutely horrendous. I can't believe some of the messages that were being sent when SE was pushing Feast really hard. Screenshots from friends from what they experienced, just from lapse of judgement on their part. The vetern XIV PvPers were not at all friendly by any means to having new blood competing if they were stuck with them on the same team.

I mean jeeze, I remember a friend being upset and posting a screenshot of someone telling her to uninstall and hang herself because of a loss. Told her to report the player, but the fact it was even said is just astonishing.

Blame the people, not the tool. blaming the tool leads to all sorts of slippery slope arguments, same can be said with parses. If a city or some localized area had a ton of car accidents do you suddenly say ban all cars? To me SE only did that because they did not want to ban all those people with the fear of losing money, or hiring more GM staff to handle all the calls. So they took a shortcut, like many things.

Kaiiiiiva C

Argue the concept, not the person, you know my past with them as well, do you see them going at their throats at every turn?