Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Deliberately sabotaging the raid to get back at a player not doing precisely what you want seems quite a bit worse than some random in casual content not having the proper set of role abilities. If you're upset about the lost damage from having tank stance, how is costing the raid even more DPS by letting a DPS die, especially repeatedly, going to improve that?

Depends on the circumstances. First and foremost, it's hardly sabotaging anything in say, Ridorana. One dead SAM not going to accomplish anything except maybe reminding them to use Diversion. Regardless, in a learning party? Sure, I'll be far more conservative, or if someone has the courtesy to say, "Oh shit! I forgot to slot Diversion," I'll make up for it. If they simply can't be bothered because aggro is a "tank responsibility," I can't be bothered to save them either. It's not simply "doing precisely what I want," but not forcing me into tank stance repeatedly, thus I have to play sub-optimal to counteract you. On Warrior, especially, this completely screws up my rotation if that aggro spike happens at an inopportune moment. All because you can't use Diversion. It's even worse now since MNK and SAM both have a built in aggro dump, which, by the way, is less of a DPS loss than forcing the tank to spam aggro combos. DRG and NIN have no excuse.

If a person dies repeated, that means they refused to slot Diversion throughout a 24 man or we wiped and they still didn't slot it. A dead DPS has no chance of touching aggro again unless both tanks have also died. I had the former happen about a month ago, actually. He even had Diversion because I checked later. Two uses out of five bosses (one wipe) and he got uppity because I finally became fed up in Yiazmat.

[Nixxe]

So, you're going to die on the hill of "I'm going to take Crutch over Diversion?" Too bad, 4.4 is going to give us all role actions regardless of our "meta". I didn't realize not getting hit in the face by a big monster while you were DPSing was something only people who were meta wanted, thank you for your insight into the matter. But, there is significantly more difficulty in having the tank swap back over to tank stance - it isn't fun, it's clunky, it's disruptive, and managing it via a DPS actually using Diversion is probably the easiest thing you can do to make the run easier.

From what I learned, we're not allowed to ask for a standard of DPS, usage of role actions, and... anyone else keeping track? I lost it.

It's more that I don't think anyone, including the other members of your party, benefit from pointless antagonism because you've declared yourself judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to meta-violators in random group casual content. If you want to make constructive suggestions, by all means do so, but instigating conflict where conflict is unnecessary just makes the game less pleasant for everyone, including those who are not the targets of your irritation.

[Ultima]

It's more that I don't think anyone, including the other members of your party, benefit from pointless antagonism because you've declared yourself judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to meta-violators in random group casual content. If you want to make constructive suggestions, by all means do so, but instigating conflict where conflict is unnecessary just makes the game less pleasant for everyone, including those who are not the targets of your irritation.

Oh don't worry, if someone is making the game unplayable for everyone else by refusing to socket Diversion then we have a button for that, we have a button called Votekick. Our Difference in Playstyles is too great for us to continue working together, see... I want to DPS while tanking and they want to tank the floor apparently? So... gonna have to ask them to leave and if someone else agrees with me, then you can say I was in the right.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's more that I don't think anyone, including the other members of your party, benefit from pointless antagonism because you've declared yourself judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to meta-violators in random group casual content. If you want to make constructive suggestions, by all means do so, but instigating conflict where conflict is unnecessary just makes the game less pleasant for everyone, including those who are not the targets of your irritation.

There is nothing "meta" about slotting a role action. This is basic advice given in every rotation guide available. If you're doing a standard DPS rotation, you'll have seen where they slot Diversion or read their emphasise to use it. You simply elected not to, and didn't try to inform the party during a transition or something. It's just, "surprise!" for the tanks. Per that SAM in Ridorona I meationed. I did switch back into Defiance once and managed to fight off his enmity a second time with IR and some extra Onslaughts. Funny enough, I noticed that's about when he stopped using Diversion, i.e., he only bothered when I didn't compensate for him. So yeah, by the time we got to Yizamat, I've long done my "extra" part.

As for innocent bystanders. If I know a cleave happens, I'll fix it because it isn't their fault one person's lazy. If it's a tank buster, eh, you're now a cooldown. Although, to be fair, most busters lock on. So even if I want to save you, if you rip when something like Rake or Tidepod is about to go off. You're dead no matter what I do unless I'm on PLD.

[Nixxe]

Although, to be fair, most busters lock on. So even if I want to save you, if you rip when something like Rake or Tidepod is about to go off. You're dead no matter what I do unless I'm on PLD.

Yeah, that's fine. Like I said, I think people should take and use Diversion. The point isn't that I expect you or anyone else to erase anyone else's mistakes entirely, only that it's best to just let it go and do what you can to minimize their impact because we all just want to clear the content and go home. If they die because they didn't use Diversion and it resulted in them eating a tank buster, that's entirely on them. If such decisions made by them are preventing or jeopardizing the clear, then they will have earned their vote kick and have no one to blame but themselves.

[MoroMurasaki]

It's more that I don't think anyone, including the other members of your party, benefit from pointless antagonism because you've declared yourself judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to meta-violators in random group casual content. If you want to make constructive suggestions, by all means do so, but instigating conflict where conflict is unnecessary just makes the game less pleasant for everyone, including those who are not the targets of your irritation.

I don't see how the given example shows anyone being judge, jury and executioner. I've seen plenty of RDMs specifically rip hate in o6n because they don't use Diversion and eat the opening Demonic Shear and die, myself included at least once.

Would it be nice if the tanks noticed what had happened and Provoked off of me in time? Of course, and I've had that happen too, but to expect the tanks to be staring at the enmity bars esecially during their openers is silly.

Every non-tank in the game has at least one way to manage their enmity. If they choose not to use it and die it is 100% on their shoulders.

It seems like people defending the poor play on behalf of these casual dps are fine with expecting above average play from tanks to compensate for inconsiderate dps - why is it okay to burden tanks with dps stupidity but not okay to expect dps to take responsibility for properly using their own enmity modifiers?

[Vstarstruck]

Deliberately sabotaging the raid to get back at a player not doing precisely what you want seems quite a bit worse than some random in casual content not having the proper set of role abilities. If you're upset about the lost damage from having tank stance, how is costing the raid even more DPS by letting a DPS die, especially repeatedly, going to improve that?

I will just quote this but will reference the full convo. Anyways first off I think it is wrong to call it "sabotaging the raid" because someone did not use diversion. I seen true "sabotaging the raid" situations, and they got reported/vote kick each time. Also the reverse logic can be reflected right back, It is "sabotaging the raid" for a DPS not using diversion to prevent death causing the healer to step out of their rotation to make up for it.

Another situation I heard about relegating to this is a sigma normal. There was a savage geared sam never using diversion and trying go full tryhard. He complained about dying near the end, and someone in the party said something of the lines of "You could of prevented that you know" and other people agreeing about using diversion. His reply was harassing the tank about "learning how to play" and other nonsense. I hope that report bear fruit. Also I know someone else will tell people to use diversion/lucid this person plays DPS to other DPS because they understand the idea of cooperation and that some people may not have a keyboard or type fast enough to tell someone to be aware of such situations.

[Nixxe]

It seems like people defending the poor play on behalf of these casual dps are fine with expecting above average play from tanks to compensate for inconsiderate dps - why is it okay to burden tanks with dps stupidity but not okay to expect dps to take responsibility for properly using their own enmity modifiers?

While the comment chain branched off of a response to someone discussing a particular situation they encountered as a tank, I've made no mention of role specificity nor do I think it's role specific. It's simply about plugging holes where you can because you can because life's too short to be picking fights in trivial content you'll clear one way or the other.

[Kaliesto]

I'm pretty sure that "content isnt designed with healer dps in mind" is from yoshi talking about how alexander normal mode was designed around healers not dpsing and now people just attribute that quote to all content when that is extremely unlikely to be the case with savage.

I think that is the issue here for most content in this game, some classes work better than others for certain bosses but however it is never stated unless you dig up quotes like this, makes me rethink how we're doing this content.

Also on a unrelated note I do find Parsing groups tend to ruin everyone's experience in this game, it went beyond trying to improve oneself to more of a abuse towards other players.

[MoroMurasaki]

Also on a unrelated note I do find Parsing groups tend to ruin everyone's experience in this game, it went beyond trying to improve oneself to more of a abuse towards other players.

I don't think people who say things like this realize how often they are grouped with people who are parsing and legitimately never know about it.