Lucky Bancho and NA raiding problems.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Its likely a cultural thing. You can clear raids in Raid Finder over there. Good luck doing that here.

NA community is very "Me, Me, Me" while the JP community tends to orient more towards the group.

You get a lot of NA players at 70 who can't even do the DPS people were able to do at 60. Its a lack of effort, lack of care, and lack of wanting to improve ones self. "I got through the content, so I must be good enough" seems to be the standard mindset over here.

[RiyahArp]

But skill among players tends to be equal, period. They would have the same percentage of bad players and poor dps as us. Otherwise the game would be a LOT harder in general to match the skill of the JP playerbase, but SE has put it on a constant trend downwards. I think it really is just desire or incentives/expectations.

This isn't really news. This has been a constant things since raiding in general was a thing, and pretty much like Lenneth says, it is indeed a cultural factor at play, and there's neither anything to really change that nor any incentive for devs to make any changes toward this.

the problem is that if NA and EU do less raiding, SE can't just release content based on JP raiding. Ultimate was an example perhaps; NA hardcore was like "NO, why slow it down?" Maybe though if a lot more JP raid and expect to do it, they have to slow it down to give them a chance. Here its just world firsters and a tiny group anyways who does it, so there's little reason to hold back. So I wonder what will happen if we keep diverging, or if they will have to start trying to interest more NA/EU players into savage.

[Emstidor]

But skill among players tends to be equal, period. They would have the same percentage of bad players and poor dps as us. Otherwise the game would be a LOT harder in general to match the skill of the JP playerbase, but SE has put it on a constant trend downwards. I think it really is just desire or incentives/expectations.

Even considering roughy equal skill levels, you could make an argument that the JP approach of "Party Finders until you get comfortable with the content, then queue up to get stuff done" is less exclusionary and more pub-friendly than "Find a static willing to learn content with you/handhold you while you learn, then maybe substitute in Party Finder groups in the event your group misses a clear that week".

[RiyahArp]

Even considering roughy equal skill levels, you could make an argument that the JP approach of "Party Finders until you get comfortable with the content, then queue up to get stuff done" is less exclusionary and more pub-friendly than "Find a static willing to learn content with you/handhold you while you learn, then maybe substitute in Party Finder groups in the event your group misses a clear that week".

yeah, if the expectation though is everyone raids or tries to, you make structures for it.If they don't, the pf approch probably would break down, not enough at one time to force queues to pop. IDK.

It's not individual player skill though, and looking at that completely misses the point. It's the ability to work as a team that JP groups have as an advantage due to the nature of raiding requiring teamwork to function.

They work as a team because its expected everyone does it, I think. When you expect that, you have to compensate more for people.

I mean, honestly, what more incentives could you possibly give? Most of the game gears you up so you can even raid. It's on the players themselves to actually take the time to learn how to do their jobs properly. Besides that, motivation is a huge factor. A lot of NA players just don't have an interest in raiding. A good portion of them aren't capable of raiding either - many folks have gone into Savage and have gotten carried, and many of those same players take offense at even the smallest of suggestions to improve.

Side note: I've been avoiding subjects like these for a while, but figured I'd give my own personal thoughts on the matter.

IDK, I didn't think that far ahead.

I'm not meaning nerfing or anything, but the game doesnt really give you much reason to raid at all. Like the weapons are useless since virtually all content is ilvlcapped, often incredibly low. There are the mounts, but at this point we are drowning in them. Maybe others have better ideas, but like in other games, raiders actively look for new players and ask them to join raiding guilds. Here you are lucky if even your fc asks you.

[KaivaC]

IDK, I didn't think that far ahead.

I'm not meaning nerfing or anything, but the game doesnt really give you much reason to raid at all. Like the weapons are useless since virtually all content is ilvlcapped, often incredibly low. There are the mounts, but at this point we are drowning in them. Maybe others have better ideas, but like in other games, raiders actively look for new players and ask them to join raiding guilds. Here you are lucky if even your fc asks you.

The one good thing that Yoshi P said is to take breaks - but even that is a double-edged sword. I don't believe that anymore content needs to be nerfed. If players are going to raid, they will raid. It's all about motivation, in my mind, and what players want to achieve by raiding. I made this mistake once and I damn near quit FFXIV over it, but there's more to the game than raiding. Some players only want to raid, and that's fine - but the players who do that already have this goal in mind. There's not much one can do to incentivize more players to join raids aside from what's been done already. Same with being an omnicrafter - the tools and the rewards are there, but unless that's a goal that you really want to achieve, even the promise of bankrolling gil won't motivate you to put in the work to be an omnicrafter if you just aren't motivated to do it.

Insofar as player skill is concerned...well, that's just the stubbornness of some players in not wanting to improve. The last few weeks that I've been playing on a new main, I've seen some things in the DF that shock the hell out of me. Things like:

- DRKs who do multi-pulls without Grit
- BLMs who think that it's better to cast Ice spells for most of the dungeon
- RDMs who spam Scatter on single targets
- DRGs who never use Heavy Thrust
- BRDs that only play one song in the entire run
- WARs who don't use defensive cooldowns
- CNJs in post-ARR content who don't want to get their job stones

I see these on an almost daily basis in post-50 content. I haven't even unlocked the first HW dungeon on my main. Everything between Aurum Vale and Steps of Faith, I see this at least three times daily. Some players are simply too stubborn to accept advice of any kind. Why nerf content even more to continue enabling these bad habits? The game already teaches you the basics of what you are supposed to do. Getting through Aurum and Wanderer's alone already is pushing you with the skill set that you currently have - it's fairly difficult to carry somebody because of how punishing those dungeons are.

These are just my own personal thoughts on the matter, but the incentives are already there. I was told once that if you want to get good at raiding, you have to work at it - it doesn't just happen overnight. If some players don't want to put in the work, why should content continue to be neutered for them? The last time I raided, V7S was the wall in much the same fashion that V3S was a wall. I dunno how the Sigmascape raiding scene is right now, but I wouldn't want those fights to get nerfed. If players want to get better, it's on them - they will take the time out to look up guides from the Balance, study FFLOGs, reach out to other people, take the time to actually practice and learn their jobs, put that work to actual practice, etc.

I wouldn't worry too much about the clear rates posted by Lucky Bancho, though. From what I do understand, participation rates are higher than they've ever been, which means that NA still has a somewhat healthy raiding community. I think that the skill level needs to go up, but that's on players to be willing to listen, learn, and to teach properly. Again, these are just my personal thoughts on the matter. I hope this helped answer you a little bit.

[Tiaque]

Snip.

Sounds like a nightmare. If I saw any of that and I knew it was gonna be a painful run, id do "/emote does a jig and a shimmy singing "**ck this **it im out!" and disappears."

Had to do that quite a few times, rather wait the timer and do something else than deal with something that would make me slap my forehead causing injury. Funny thing is had a few people usually the one being bad on their class, go out of their way to make a alt on my server and curse me out. Its adorable.

[KaivaC]

Sounds like a nightmare. If I saw any of that and I knew it was gonna be a painful run, id do "/emote does a jig and a shimmy singing "**ck this **it im out!" and disappears."

Had to do that quite a few times, rather wait the timer and do something else than deal with something that would make me slap my forehead causing injury. Funny thing is had a few people usually the one being bad on their class, go out of their way to make a alt on my server and curse me out. Its adorable.

Lol. Yeah, well, for the most part, I just keep my mouth shut and offer advice where I can. Being incognito has its perks, you know

[AxlStream]

Why do you try to advise people in Expert anyways? People just want to grab the tomes and leave. Litterally the worst place to start advising people.

[Kazrah]

But skill among players tends to be equal, period. They would have the same percentage of bad players and poor dps as us. Otherwise the game would be a LOT harder in general to match the skill of the JP playerbase, but SE has put it on a constant trend downwards. I think it really is just desire or incentives/expectations.

It's not individual player skill though, and looking at that completely misses the point. It's the ability to work as a team that JP groups have as an advantage due to the nature of raiding requiring teamwork to function.

[ImDingDing]

Its likely a cultural thing. You can clear raids in Raid Finder over there. Good luck doing that here.

NA community is very "Me, Me, Me" while the JP community tends to orient more towards the group.

You get a lot of NA players at 70 who can't even do the DPS people were able to do at 60. Its a lack of effort, lack of care, and lack of wanting to improve ones self. "I got through the content, so I must be good enough" seems to be the standard mindset over here.

This is not true, badies are bad here and there, actually JP PF average DPS of all jobs are lower than NA PF. The difference is JP PF stick for hours where NA players leave within 3 pulls. I don't think it's bad or good, just different cultural. JP bad players get carried through the content without improving their dps either. Ask anyone who played in savage content in JP PF about the healers' dps you will see what I mean.