Ultimate hiatus feedback

[shibeouya]

That's not true. X.5 is usually when the new 24 man comes out. That content is mainly focused on helping people catch up or bridge the gap for people struggling to complete the X.4 raid tier. If you've had that raid tier on farm when the 24 man comes out, chances are high that you're not seeing any upgrades from that content.

Are you saying that hardcore raiders never run 24 man raids? That has not been my experience, even the people I know who can be considered hardcore, still do Ridorana to get their weekly token right now. This is content that both hardcore and not hardcore people run usually.

With that in mind, I think we both agree that this content is not enough to satiate players (hardcore and non) for a whole patch, which is what I was referring to when saying "nothing for everyone".

If they add Ultimate, it means that non hardcore players are still left with nothing. I'd rather see them add "something else" that can benefit everyone.

[Emileigh]

Wrong. x.5 patches have been patches of nothing FOR EVERYONE, not just for raiding ppl. If they just add something for raiding ppl, it still leaves the 99.9% with nothing to do. If they're actually going to put out something in 4.5, I'd rather have it be something most people can enjoy. Retaining some of 99.9% is more valuable than retaining a few from the < 1% that would even try the next Ultimate.

except you're assuming that with cutting the last ultimate they are going to release something meaningful for the rest of the playerbase. what makes you think that they would suddenly switch gears to turn out some new system or content at the end of the expansion with minimal time to be able to play through it?
It would be far more resource intensive to create something new from scratch than it is to reuse past assets to make a fight. There is no president for such a thing and far less available resources and time to create said content.

[shibeouya]

except you're assuming that with cutting the last ultimate they are going to release something meaningful for the rest of the playerbase. what makes you think that they would suddenly switch gears to turn out some new system or content at the end of the expansion with minimal time to be able to play through it?

Nothing. But at least it gives them the resources to do so. Whereas if they were to release Ultimate, we know with almost 100% guarantee that would be the only "extra" we would get this patch and everyone except hardcore will quit again like at the end of HW. They might still not release anything else with Ultimate gone, but they also might. And if they don't it's certainly to divert the resources to some expansion content, which I'd still rather see more than a new Ultimate fight.

I agree they should clarify their plans on this so we know what's going to happen here.

[Remedi]

If you really think that the resources saved from another ultimate will be enough for something else you are mistaken or know something we don't know about. That said considering that ultimate is mostly done with reused assets in about every conceivable way I won't agree to this point until said by the company itself

[jameseoakes]

except you're assuming that with cutting the last ultimate they are going to release something meaningful for the rest of the playerbase. what makes you think that they would suddenly switch gears to turn out some new system or content at the end of the expansion with minimal time to be able to play through it?
It would be far more resource intensive to create something new from scratch than it is to reuse past assets to make a fight. There is no president for such a thing and far less available resources and time to create said content.

As an example they could make a second extreme primal, it would take as much if not less effort and be something for a lot more people. Give it it's own mount and it will still be farm come the next expansion.
Though if it was really a choice between ultimate and nothing then yeah they should do ultimate.

[Remedi]

As an example they could make a second extreme primal, it would take as much if not less effort and be something for a lot more people. Give it it's own mount and it will still be farm come the next expansion.
Though if it was really a choice between ultimate and nothing then yeah they should do ultimate.

A new primal requires new art, new music, new story. which is the most amount of work for a content.

The whole reason we got Ultimate in the first place is because they could reuse the assets they add to do so, note how they don't need to redo most of enemies models, sound, the zones and the complete lack of story. Even rewards are reskins of rpexisting weapons with a new glow on it.

This was the deal on ultimate as such another primal would require much more work to be effectively done

[shibeouya]

If you really think that the resources saved from another ultimate will be enough for something else you are mistaken or know something we don't know about. That said considering that ultimate is mostly done with reused assets in about every conceivable way I won't agree to this point until said by the company itself

There's a tremendous amount of work that goes in the Ultimate fights for balancing it "just right". I don't think it's just a matter of reused assets or not, there's other stuff like this that comes into play. You're acting like creating a Ultimate fight takes no effort, which I can't agree to. In software development it's always a matter of switching resources around, so take from one place to give to another. Ultimate is no different.

[Remedi]

The whole reason they said they would do ultimate fights is because they would use reused assets to save time so ye that's a matter also I'm not saying it takes no time, I'm saying that it takes less time.

[Emileigh]

There's a tremendous amount of work that goes in the Ultimate fights for balancing it "just right". I don't think it's just a matter of reused assets or not, there's other stuff like this that comes into play. You're acting like creating a Ultimate fight takes no effort, which I can't agree to. In software development it's always a matter of switching resources around, so take from one place to give to another. Ultimate is no different.

the resources they said they are saving are not effected by the ultimate fights. The battle design and balancing teams obviously have more free time than the art, music, and story questing teams. And those are the teams most heavily effected by the upcoming expansion as well. It was an attempt to utilize their resources most effectively while producing more content.

Anything else would be far more work for a team that yoship has constantly said is at its limits.

[shibeouya]

I understand that it's a different team taking care of Ultimate and its balance, and it's actually a very valid point and I agree. But my point remains, it's still a bunch of resources that need to be allocated to it, which seems wasteful at the end of an xpac. They could dedicate same resources on a) Something else for 4.5. I'm sure they could find something for everyone to enjoy if they really wanted to; b) Some new content for the new expansion, so it's hopefully not as lacking in endgame as 3.0 or 4.0. Either would be more benefitial than a new Ultimate.

To anyone who is ocmplaining about the lakc of Ultimate in 4.5 - did you actually already clear both Ultimate? Am I really in the minority here seeing that everyone I've seen attempt either Ultimate has cleared neither? It would be a different story if most people who've attempted cleared Ultimate, but in its current state I really do not see the point of yet another one when most people who want it still have 2 fights to clear.