Ultimate hiatus feedback

[jameseoakes]

Perhaps, I’m fortunate enough to be well known and typically get asked to cover for a number of groups healers. This no doubt pads the number of pugs and raids I do outside of my own static. I’m at work at the mo so I can’t have a look at how healthy PF is on Chaos. I’ll have a nose later at peak tho.
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At 15:05 BST there's 7 locked duties for me with 3 looking like parties actually looking to run it now just by looking at the party comp (All one person though)

I'm on primal as well. All of the raiders I know on primal are working on uwu and I personally know of 3 groups on primal who have cleared it already.
You're right that it is not on pf much, but that is not indicative as to how many people here are doing it. Most are not crazy enough to actually pug it. Most of what you will see in pf are people forming up to create dedicated groups to clear this thing.
There is one well known raider who is very dedicated and does pug ultimate religiously, but he has the patience of a saint. But even he was able to get to the end of ucob purely pugging, and he is doing it again for uwu. This is nonviable for most of the raiding population however. It is vastly easier to join or form a group for a month to get it down, and that is what you are seeing. Even pf recruitments are rare since most people use r/ffxivRecrutment, the balance discord, or various other recruitment discords as their primary way to recruit.

Please take your fallacy of "if I don't see it, it must not exist" elsewhere.

That does rather play into idea the that this content being made only for a very small and very closed group

[Remedi]

ATM there are no PF group for PVP content on my data center, so it's safe to say that PVP has no1 interested in it and should be stopped producing right?

[RiyahArp]

ATM there are no PF group for PVP content on my data center, so it's safe to say that PVP has no1 interested in it and should be stopped producing right?

PvP is done mostly solo. Light party feast is the only mode that requires a group, and it is specifically excluded from pf due to the special interface for light party teams. Even then, LP has always been underused, to the point that you could win trade with it, and it was removed from the game for a period till they reinstated it.

I'm on primal as well. All of the raiders I know on primal are working on uwu and I personally know of 3 groups on primal who have cleared it already.

wow, 24 whole people. So how many raiders do you know? I bet its barely 100.

Please, the amount of ultimate raiders is tiny in this game.

[Emileigh]

That does rather play into idea the that this content being made only for a very small and very closed group

Do you need to read the original post again? Why are you ignoring every point that has been brought up by us and hundreds of others in this thread? It literally sounds like you are covering your eyes and ears and just yelling "but the 1%!!" This is getting silly.

We have outlined how it effects people far beyond just the 1% of players that it was designed for. (And do keep in mind that only 50% of the population ever make it past the msq, so SE is already designing all of their content for a smaller section of the players.)

- It is content to keep the 1% busy
- It is content that challenges the 10% of the playerbase that can clear o8s.
- It is content to fill a massive gap in content between expansions that in the past has made many unsub and not come back.
- It is content that inspires raiders that are not yet good enough to do it to improve.
- it is content that attracts attention and gets people interested in the hardcore aspect of the game. It gets people interested in raiding to begin with
- it is content that is enjoyable to watch even for those not interested in doing it themselves.
- and these raiders help keep the market and economy alive in the downtime between big content patches by using crafted goods ( food, pots, materia, gear etc) needed for progression. Thus effecting the crafting/ gathering community as well.

[Remedi]

PvP is done mostly solo. Light party feast is the only mode that requires a group, and it is specifically excluded from pf due to the special interface for light party teams. Even then, LP has always been underused, to the point that you could win trade with it, and it was removed from the game for a period till they reinstated it..

It doesn't matter it was to show that the argument of PF is utter rubbish as such a rubbish argument deserves a rubbish counter argument.

Also according to wowhead about 1.3k guilds have defeated argus in mythic mode that's more or less 26k ppl worldwide on a population of 5mil, that's quite low don't you think? Maybe mythic mode should be deleted from wow too

[shibeouya]

Ultimate is content that the very very large majority of players will never see, let alone actually seriously attempt. You can take it any way you want, but having the devs spend a lot of time on content that will only be good for a tiny amount of players is bad for the longevity of the game. Right now it's same frequency for Ultimate as Omega tiers which is for everyone, so that makes no sense.

Some more reasons why I support them skipping the last patch with Ultimate:
* This would be the last patch. Even among people who attempt, unless you're part of the elite few, it would take you several months to clear it at normal schedule. By the time, the new expansion would be out, and most people would likely just focus on expansion content then. Essentially, this fight being released on last path would be dead on arrival due to the hardcore nature of it.
* Last patch has historically been where most people quit the game. If they just focus on Ultimate, sure it will ensure that a few hardore players don't quit, but for 99.9% of players there will be nothing to do, so this doesn't solve the problem at all. I'd rather see them focus this patch on putting something out that all can enjoy to decrease the drop out rate.
* Most people who have attempted both Ultimate fights still haven't cleared. I know a few people mostly outside of my FC who have thrown themselves at Ultimate since release, and none of them cleared or is anywhere close to it. From what I hear, it's also very difficult to now find a group for UCob now that UWU is out. Do we really need another Ultimate this content, meaning UWU will be impossible to find a group, when most people have cleared neither fight?
* The "magic" behind Ultimate fights seem to have faded for the "watchers". I'll admit that for UCoB I saw many people watch streams and actively talk about it for weeks, myself included. But for UWU? Sure the first couple days people talked about it. But after 2 days or so I barely saw any mention of it. I'd rather them take their time to develop something truly unique for Ultimate next expansion, than something that will barely generate any enthusiasm.

[Gouka_Mekkyaku]

Drama typically stems from content that forcibly pairs hardcore and casual players. Such content includes Savage and expert dungeons. It's obvious why that is the case: each side feels differently about the difficulty of the content and the amount of dedication they should make to perfect their performance. Continued exposure to this dichotomy undermines the enjoyment of this game and generates the most disdain between players. Instead, Square Enix should continue to focus its efforts on branching content such that people feel comfortable "in their lane." My experience in Ultimate PUG groups lends itself to this claim. Players, understanding that Ultimate is the most challenging content, are far more forgiving of errors and more courteous.

What is important, and is the topic at hand, is whether the community enjoys Ultimate. Through instrumental measurements and the responses generated in this thread, it seems the answer is resoundingly positive. Moreover, since Square Enix has made a concentrated effort at branching its content, tailoring to different interests and skill levels, it means Ultimate is a core feature of the game. It is content Square Enix actively advertises as a reason to play the game. Core features of the game should not have the release schedule of limited time and seasonal events. But by limiting Ultimate to twice per expansion, you're doing exactly that. There are two Halloween events per expansion and two Ultimates per expansion. Does that not seem backwards? If I buy a game, whose core features include XYZ, I expect XYZ to appear much more frequently than a limited time event. I'll leave you with this: at the start of ARR, I recall Yoshi highlighting endgame content by saying, roughly, that the game had not even begun until you hit level 50. This mindset was successful and should continue to guide your decision as you reconsider the release schedule of Ultimate.

[Remedi]

* This would be the last patch. Even among people who attempt, unless you're part of the elite few, it would take you several months to clear it at normal schedule. By the time, the new expansion would be out, and most people would likely just focus on expansion content then. Essentially, this fight being released on last path would be dead on arrival due to the hardcore nature of it.
* Last patch has historically been where most people quit the game. If they just focus on Ultimate, sure it will ensure that a few hardore players don't quit, but for 99.9% of players there will be nothing to do, so this doesn't solve the problem at all. I'd rather see them focus this patch on putting something out that all can enjoy to decrease the drop out rate.

This 2 points are why ppl are arguing for an ultimate in 4.5. Since the x.5 patches have been usually patches of nothing for the raiding ppl it would give them SOMETHING to do

[shibeouya]

This 2 points are why ppl are arguing for an ultimate in 4.5. Since the x.5 patches have been usually patches of nothing for the raiding ppl it would give them SOMETHING to do

Wrong. x.5 patches have been patches of nothing FOR EVERYONE, not just for raiding ppl. If they just add something for raiding ppl, it still leaves the 99.9% with nothing to do. If they're actually going to put out something in 4.5, I'd rather have it be something most people can enjoy. Retaining some of 99.9% is more valuable than retaining a few from the < 1% that would even try the next Ultimate.

[Akava]

Wrong. x.5 patches have been patches of nothing FOR EVERYONE, not just for raiding ppl. If they just add something for raiding ppl, it still leaves the 99.9% with nothing to do. If they're actually going to put out something in 4.5, I'd rather have it be something most people can enjoy. Retaining some of 99.9% is more valuable than retaining a few from the < 1% that would even try the next Ultimate.

That's not true. X.5 is usually when the new 24 man comes out. That content is mainly focused on helping people catch up or bridge the gap for people struggling to complete the X.4 raid tier. If you've had that raid tier on farm when the 24 man comes out, chances are high that you're not seeing any upgrades from that content.