Healer DPS - enjoyable or a chore?

[Maeka]

Well the idea is if you're having to heal more often, you do a lot less DPSing. Half of the reason why the healers do so much DPS is that they have far, FAR more raw healing power than they should actually NEED, and you get these 5 seconds here, 10 seconds there that you're doing jack all, so why not throw some rocks?

But throwing rocks is incredibly boring, especially in easier content where there's no danger. Yeah maybe savage raids and ex primals you need to time it well and weave it in, and do it right or die, but it's still symptoms of the same problem, but one without an easy solution. We could do all WoW-like where a tank goes from 20% to 80% to 20% to 80% needing constant heals or they die in 3 seconds flat, but that's not fun for the healer. I HATED WoW healing with a passion when I tried it. It was terrible.

But yet XIV's healing gets boring at times.

I think having more than 1 button DPS might help a little. At least then if I need to solo quest as WHM, it wouldn't be so flippin' BORING doing nothing but casting Stone repeatedly. No, I don't want three 3-button combos to switch up, or swapping between 6 different Ver spells, or what-not, but could we go past the 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 stage perhaps?

[Risvertasashi]

I think having more than 1 button DPS might help a little. At least then if I need to solo quest as WHM, it wouldn't be so flippin' BORING doing nothing but casting Stone repeatedly. No, I don't want three 3-button combos to switch up, or swapping between 6 different Ver spells, or what-not, but could we go past the 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 stage perhaps?

There are alternative solutions. Give healers buffs to toss out. On the GCD, not as cooldowns. With a duration similar to regen or aspected benefic. And to avoid the 1 button spam problem... create combos you can progress through. For example, start with a 2% DPS buff. If you hit a 3 second window at the end of the buff, you can turn it into a 4% DPS buff. If the recipient deals X damage within that timeframe, you can proc them to a 6% damage buff. Etc.

So you can have a minigame of trying to get and keep someone or several someones at the max buff level.

[Jade3173]

defiantly don't find healer DPS fun and is the main reason I switched to an actual DPS when 4.0 dropped. Throughout, admittedly only towards the end of 2.0, and all of 3.0 being a healer main sucked because of how much time I was spamming Stone/Malefic rather than Cure/Benefic. AST cards help alleviate the problem somewhat as it's more support than DPS but does land in the problem of being oGCD and not taking up time that I spend DPSing. While I think it'll never happen in a million years, would love for 5.0 to come around and make it so healers are healers and not green DPS that toss out heals every X amount of seconds (and they toss those heals out via Regen and/or oGCD heals to for max DPS)

[MoroMurasaki]

being a healer main sucked because of how much time I was spamming Stone/Malefic rather than Cure/Benefic

I've seen this sentiment echoed several times in this thread and I'm curious - what would be more engaging about spamming heal spells instead of dps spells?

Edit: Not just aimed at you of course, I'm curious why anyone feels this way.

[Hestzhyen]

I've seen this sentiment echoed several times in this thread and I'm curious - what would be more engaging about spamming heal spells instead of dps spells?

Edit: Not just aimed at you of course, I'm curious why anyone feels this way.

I'd much rather have more intricate ways to heal- branching combos maybe, like DPS do. More big cooldowns. More ways to buff the party/change the flow of the fight. But like I said there's a different, larger discussion around the fundamentals of how healing, mitigation, and frequency/potency of incoming damage that strongly influences this discussion. You can't make healing more exciting or thematically appropriate (in my opinion!) without addressing those first.

The problem is the way healing works in this game is so darn strong and enemy damage is best described as "large sproadic bursts". Our normal bread-and-butter spells are so powerful we can set some regens on the MT, MAYBE the party if needed, and just spam that one DPS spell while doing some spot heals with OGCDs as needed in the majority of content the game offers. Seeing how little healing I can get away with is fun in a way, but... why am I playing healer then? Why are Ultimate and the current EX and Savage the only content that actually requires me to do what I signed up for? If I'm not going to be healing all the time, that's fine I guess, but give me something support-ish to do in the downtime. Buff management or something (AST gets close to this). I feel like contributing personal DPS should be last on my list of things to do, not #1. Especially when all I can do is apply a DoT and smash the G6 key over and over again.

[MoroMurasaki]

It's not about wanting to spam heals instead of DPSing. For me at least, I'd rather have a more engaging DPS rotation. I know SE is adamant about not wanting healers to feel like they need to dps, but they don't deserve to have such a boring and uninteresting DPS kit.

100% agreed. Even the arbitrary difficulty of the old Cleric Stance would be welcome at this point imo.

I'd much rather have more intricate ways to heal- branching combos maybe, like DPS do. More big cooldowns. More ways to buff the party/change the flow of the fight. But like I said there's a different, larger discussion around the fundamentals of how healing, mitigation, and frequency/potency of incoming damage that strongly influences this discussion. You can't make healing more exciting or thematically appropriate (in my opinion!) without addressing those first.

The problem is the way healing works in this game is so darn strong and enemy damage is best described as "large sproadic bursts". Our normal bread-and-butter spells are so powerful we can set some regens on the MT, MAYBE the party if needed, and just spam that one DPS spell while doing some spot heals with OGCDs as needed in the majority of content the game offers. Seeing how little healing I can get away with is fun in a way, but... why am I playing healer then? Why are Ultimate and the current EX and Savage the only content that actually requires me to do what I signed up for? If I'm not going to be healing all the time, that's fine I guess, but give me something support-ish to do in the downtime. Buff management or something (AST gets close to this). I feel like contributing personal DPS should be last on my list of things to do, not #1. Especially when all I can do is apply a DoT and smash the G6 key over and over again.

I mean no offense here (I should take my own advice that this always means "I'm about to offend you," but I swear I'm not) but I have two main issues with this. Firstly (in my limited understanding of other MMOs) this is how healers work in those already. I've talked to and played with a fair few people who have sunk serious time into healing in WoW and I myself healed in ESO, both games that deliver on aspects of what you're claiming to want.

FFXIV is the only MMO out there where healers don't have to play in this way, so basically the only MMO that lets me play a healer and not feel like a buffbot hp-dispenser. I don't enjoy that, it's ultimately why I left ESO and part of what helped me fall in love with this game. Why take away the one game that appeals to people who like this playstyle just to make it mimic every other game on the market?

Secondly healer DPS has always been a thing here. Perhaps not to the extent we have seen in SB with the removal of Cleric Stance but at any point in FFXIV's lifetime if you looked into this game and healing in it you'd be presented with the fact that you're expected to dps, will have time to and seeing the skills you would use is no harder than watching clear or prog videos on Youtube or Twitch. You claim you didn't "sign up" for this style of play but I don't see how you couldn't understand how this would all function if you researched the game before subbing.

There is a chance you're a legacy player I suppose and I will concede that SE itself does a poor job of helping new players understand healer dps and it's importance so if that's the case then you have my sympathies. I still don't understand why people have to try to change something that helps FFXIV remain unique just because it doesn't offer a playstyle that so many other major MMOs seem to. You can get your desired healer playstyle anywhere,I can only have mine here so I would rather not lose the one game that doesn't seem to make healing incredibly boring.

Well for me, part of the reason is going to be the fantasy, naturally. Playing a healer, I'd want to heal stuff.

Plus I think there's a fundamental difference between healing and dps even at the basest level. I feel like it's pretty evident when you look at the tools available to each role. Dps is built around trying to maintain a rotation but healing is built with handling a variety of encounters in mind. That's going to lead to a different feel.

I mean we do heal stuff, it just doesn't take all of our time. I feel like we do have a different "feel" from DPS and I like that as well. I don't think we need to spend all our time healing to achieve that feeling though, I think it's already evident.

[Mutemutt]

I mean we do heal stuff, it just doesn't take all of our time. I feel like we do have a different "feel" from DPS and I like that as well. I don't think we need to spend all our time healing to achieve that feeling though, I think it's already evident.

What I'm saying is the actual healing feel is different from the act of dpsing and it's that healing feel that I crave. The dps is just filler, the low points between that healer high.

[Mutemutt]

I've seen this sentiment echoed several times in this thread and I'm curious - what would be more engaging about spamming heal spells instead of dps spells?

Edit: Not just aimed at you of course, I'm curious why anyone feels this way.

Well for me, part of the reason is going to be the fantasy, naturally. Playing a healer, I'd want to heal stuff.

Plus I think there's a fundamental difference between healing and dps even at the basest level. I feel like it's pretty evident when you look at the tools available to each role. Dps is built around trying to maintain a rotation but healing is built with handling a variety of encounters in mind. That's going to lead to a different feel.

[Maeka]

I've seen this sentiment echoed several times in this thread and I'm curious - what would be more engaging about spamming heal spells instead of dps spells?

Edit: Not just aimed at you of course, I'm curious why anyone feels this way.

Well, for one thing, if I wanted to be a DPS, I would show up as DPS which would have actual rotations, and more variety in their attacks.

Now, when you are actually healing, as a WHM, you got Cure, Cure 2, Regen, Medica, Medica II, Cure 3, Assize, Asylum, PI, Benison, and probably 50 more heal buttons I'm forgetting, and each have their own purpose (even if some of them lose practicality later, like Cure). It's infinitely more fun to have to decide which heal to use when, and maybe you can build strategies for different bosses and which heals you decide to use when. Or, maybe for S&G, you could try to do it with style, try to see if you can somehow weave in a Confession x3 PI or something just to say "hah, I did it!", or try to time a Medica 1/2 to go off a split second after the group-wide damage hits so that it doesn't even look like you got hurt at all. Or maybe you want to make that annoying group member nervous and let them go down to 10% before you Bene them at the last second before they take unavoidable damage just to watch them squirm (not something I'd do, but I wouldn't be surprised if some healers do this kind of junk).

That's 100x more thought than "Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone" all day long.

[Jade3173]

I've seen this sentiment echoed several times in this thread and I'm curious - what would be more engaging about spamming heal spells instead of dps spells?

Edit: Not just aimed at you of course, I'm curious why anyone feels this way.

because I find healing more rewarding than dealing damage. If you boil it down it's all just pressing buttons on a keyboard either way. The end result though, watching that HP bar of allies go up, is more of an enjoyment than simply watching the HP bar of the boss go down. Also healers in other MMOs, as you have pointed out, do have some support skills to play around with and that's why I picked AST of the 3 healers but it's still lacking that "healer feel" that I'm looking for