Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[silverlunarfox]

so lvling blm the lately and the other day in doma a got a warrior tank who bad because of pure stupidity first thing the guy does as a masive wall to wall pull which doesn't end well and we wipe guy then kept doing it and it it would always go baldy and we wipe so we told him to cut it out still kept doing it and wiping us on trash this ended up with us getting to this on pull where starting yell blm lb! when the gauge wasn't full so you know I can't actully lb then the guy leaves we get new tank and the rest of the run goes fine
at least I have bad tank story now seriously all my stories about bad players are about healers I actully warn people about pfing healers with me in the party my luck is that bad

If you ever need help leveling me and my friends are always willing to help! I know some excellent healers and tanks.

[MoroMurasaki]

Well, if I'm OT, what I like to do, is have Grit on, and open with 2-3 Souleater combos and then switch to Power Slash.

If the other tank is good, I'll maintain about 75-80% threat and I'm not going to pull threat. If I see I'm getting up to 90% I'll go back to Souleaters until the other tank catches up.

That way, if the other tank dies, I'm next on the threat list and it's easy to swap and I don't have to fumble to reach for Grit if the other tank drops dead.

But yeah the other tank was just terrible in that run.

I don't mean to jump on your post as I see a few people have already explained some of the issues with this and also some other ways to keep your enmity high as OT without tank stance on but I thought I could give another angle on why this doesn't really work out.

If you're in tank stance and your MT is a WAR they will likely be in Deliverance which means after their opener or potentially even during it you're going to yank the boss off of them. The general WAR opener is starting in Defiance and popping Unchained into Tomohawk (Equilibrium) then beginning your Storm's Eye combo to get the buff up ASAP before you get to Inner Release and changing to Deliverance during the Eye combo. The enmity lead basically comes from Tomohawk and the self-heal from Equilibrium and that's usually enough to keep you ahead until you start Fell Cleaves at which point the damage you're putting out will help maintain and often broaden your lead on threat. This might be adjusted if you know you have a much better geared dps or a particularly bursty BRD but it's the general idea.

The problem is if you're in tank stance and doing your enmity combo you're gimping that WAR's opener because he has to swap into a BB combo (which no WAR wants to do) which delays his Inner Release.

To me doing this is no different than standing in an avoidable AoE - you're making more work for someone else because you aren't playing in a way that is friendly to the group. This is to say nothing to the melee who may miss positionals or the other party members that may be cleaved if you do overtake the MT on threat and the boss spins.

Anyways, I hope this helps explain a bit more of this and also perhaps shines a light on why you may have been pulling off of some MTs in the past.

Oh, and yes, weaving in Provoke+Shirk together can be really huge for keeping both you and the MT at the top of the threat list with neither of you even having to bother with tank stance.

The other obvious alternative if you really want to be in tank stance is to just MT. If you're with a PLD you should be pulling anyways and I doubt many WARs would begrudge you holding the boss - just more time for more beast gague generation for more Fell Cleaves. You can MT for me any time!

[bounddreamer]

Also just to further add to the tank subject, in random PUGs if I load in and you're in grit, and you stay in grit, I'm going to assume you're determined to be MT and rather than get into it and waste everyone's time I'm just gonna let you have it.

[Cerbolt]

I've been attempting to learn how to tank lately. Sorry to everyone I've had in my groups, I'm trying I swear. I've just never been great at tanking in any game. But tanks are hard to find so I thought I'd try ._.

[Maeka]

Hmm.

Well, I don't really trust other tanks in 8man Trial Roulettes, lol.

But yeah I suppose, the main problem I find in Roulettes is that nobody wants to assert whether they are MT or OT and I find that when I used to ask (especially for Moggle Mog, because that's kind of important) that even when I do ask, they don't do what they said they would do.

In fact, the last Moggle Mog I did, I straight out told the PLD that I would "grab the tanks" (meaning the pld and war moogles). What does the PLD do? First thing when the King pops, he lays down CoS and Flash. He takes the King and the two tanks simultaneously and it's all I could do to provoke the WAR off of him. And I'm like "uh, dude, I thought I supposed to get those two?"

And of course, he almost dies in the process, lol.

But yet I find that if I decide I'm MT, the other tank will fight me over it and the raid will end up eating cleaves because of course, the tank don't want to face the mob away from the raid, no, they're standing directly opposite of me.

If I decide I'm OT, then the other tank will decide that it's a great time to throw DPS stance on, and suddenly you got healers/DPS pulling threat until one of us decides it's time for tank stance.

So......

I usually resort to always doing tank stance and manually managing threat levels by switching between the combos to dance the threat line, but not pull threat at the same time. If the other tank goes DPS stance and isn't even trying to maintain threat then I'll just assume MT and MT it myself.

The WAR in my previous story? He was definitely the problem. With tank stance on, he couldn't keep threat for more than the 8-ish seconds it took me to do two combos. So he was a rare case of Tank Stance + Unable to hold any kind of threat whatsoever. lol.

I've been attempting to learn how to tank lately. Sorry to everyone I've had in my groups, I'm trying I swear. I've just never been great at tanking in any game. But tanks are hard to find so I thought I'd try ._.

There are many great tanking guides in various places, youtube, forums, wherever. If you want to tank, best thing to do is start a gladiator or marauder from Lv1, practice grabbing and holding mobs, know how to dodge AoE... and then Q up for Sastasha after you get your Brand-New Gear and go from there.

It isn't hard once you get the hang of it. I'd recommend GLA/PLD because it's overall easiest to tank with, and it makes for a great intro to tanking.

EDIT: I do understand what you (mainly Hyomin and that other girl) are saying about stances and such, but again, it seems like I can rarely trust the other tank because I keep getting derpy people in my Roulettes. I take this "if I want it done right, I gotta do it myself" mentality when it comes to Roulettes. I'm ready to take charge if I need to, but yet I wait and see if somebody else will do it because I don't want them fighting me over it. I try to be the flexible person who will adapt to everybody else, because I can't trust/expect anybody else to be the one to adapt.

[Ghishlain]

I've been attempting to learn how to tank lately. Sorry to everyone I've had in my groups, I'm trying I swear. I've just never been great at tanking in any game. But tanks are hard to find so I thought I'd try ._.

You may find the below as a useful primer for your tanking experience

~~URL Link to image if you don't want to open the spoiler / need bigger image~~

Don't give up! If you're willing to learn and express that you're still learning the ropes to party, I'm sure many will understand.

[Cerbolt]

Thanks guys, and thanks for guide

[HyoMinPark]

But yeah I suppose, the main problem I find in Roulettes is that nobody wants to assert whether they are MT or OT

This tends to happen to me as well. Generally, though, if I see someone load in already in their tank stance, I just default to DPS stance. But then, there’s the inevitable tank stand-off (particularly common in 24-mans), and I tend to be the one who nuts up, throws on tank stance, and pulls. However...

But yet I find that if I decide I'm MT, the other tank will fight me over it and the raid will end up eating cleaves because of course, the tank don't want to face the mob away from the raid, no, they're standing directly opposite of me.

...this also tends to happen. At that point, it really depends on my mood, but I will either let them have it and go full-on DPS OT, or I will actually fight them for aggro out of a “No, this is my boss; you had the chance to man-up and didn’t want to, so mine” mentality. But, it really depends on my mood.

If I decide I'm OT, then the other tank will decide that it's a great time to throw DPS stance on, and suddenly you got healers/DPS pulling threat until one of us decides it's time for tank stance.

With regards to this, if the other tank is still managing his own enmity, he shouldn’t have issues holding hate while in his DPS stance, barring massive gear discrepancies but he can still manage—just need to do some more aggro combos/occasionally switch back into tank stance for an enmity lead, then switch back to DPS stance. Even if you aren’t actively Provoke+Shirking, or if this is a 24-man situation where you cannot. If the healers or DPS are ripping hate, that’s probably more likely caused by blatant and massive overhealing, or the DPS are refusing to use Diversion (I’ve noticed that MNK/SAM are particularly bad about this). Though, that’s not always the case; I’ve ripped off of Defiance WARs in Sword Oath because they’re...well idk what they’re doing (in 50 and 60 content—haven’t done any 70 content on tanks yet because I’m not a good tank lol).

I usually resort to always doing tank stance and manually managing threat levels by switching between the combos to dance the threat line, but not pull threat at the same time. If the other tank goes DPS stance and isn't even trying to maintain threat then I'll just assume MT and MT it myself.

I understand this mindset, but generally there’s no need to really worry unless the MT is losing aggro a lot, in my opinion. At that point, just MT the thing. You could probably maintain threat without tank stance on.

EDIT: I do understand what you (mainly Hyomin and that other girl) are saying about stances and such, but again, it seems like I can rarely trust the other tank because I keep getting derpy people in my Roulettes. I take this "if I want it done right, I gotta do it myself" mentality when it comes to Roulettes. I'm ready to take charge if I need to, but yet I wait and see if somebody else will do it because I don't want them fighting me over it. I try to be the flexible person who will adapt to everybody else, because I can't trust/expect anybody else to be the one to adapt.

And I understand this as well. I just mentioned not sitting in tank stance because sometimes there is unneeded aggro bouncing, and that can get on my nerves as an MT (on the rare occasion I tank) or as a melee DPS trying to hit positions because the boss is now spinning to win (on the even rarer occasion I’m on a melee...I’ve noticed I have particularly bad luck on NIN; RIP Trick Attack). ;-;

Most of the aggro fighting I witness tends to be in 24-mans. You either have the tank stand off, or all three tanks want to be MT. 8-mans, at least in my experience, tend to be a bit easier.

I honestly share this same mindset with regards to co-healers. I tend to not trust them until I see them in action...especially in 24-mans because they’re always fun and questionable. The Ridorana I did before maintenance this past Tuesday, my co-healer never raised a single person in the party. I did the majority of the raising (for both my alliance and another because one of them was having some problems), the healing, and the DPS. >.> Maybe they were new because they did just stand around a lot (and die to stuff), but I’m honestly not sure. They’d do fine, and then suddenly they were standing in and getting hit by everything. Maybe their brain was just AFK. /shrug

[TheMightyMollusk]

I had a paladin in roulette who never bothered to use an Oath at all and kept spamming Provoke and his aggro combo anyway. And nothing else.

So I Shirked him, let him die, and took the boss back. Clean sailing from there.

Somehow nobody bothered to pick him up the entire time. Wonder why......

[Enla]

Why do people hate Lakshimi so much? It wasn't even the EX, but the normal Story Mode everyone has to do in order to beat the first patch of the expansion. One healer immediately DC's, though from what I hope it was internet trouble and not actually anything malicious. We proceed to wipe because a few people are new after deciding to proceed with the trial and hope she rejoins in the middle. No dice, but it's no biggy. We kick that healer and get a new one. This time someone who has never done the trial before. Okay, perfect. Lakshimi is incredibly easy so people can do callouts as we go. Nope. Newbie rage quit after jumping off the platform with the AOE puddle and just never came back. The run was infinitely smoother this time however, but I just don't get why people DC out at the first sign of trouble. You're new, you're going to make mistakes. No one is going to hold you to them so long as you try to learn and not repeat them. It's okay to make mistakes, but please don't just DC in the middle of the fight and then get a free clear in the process. It helps no one, yourself especially because you're now SOL when the first comes up again and you still have no idea what you're doing.
Kudos to the other healer though, they stepped up and we had no further issues. I hope they got every single commendation.

Other than that... Party wipe on Scylla because healers didn't want to heal, but it was otherwise nothing worthy of note.