All Greed on Alliance loot

[Fyce]

Can't wait to have to do it ten times as a healer and let people die because I'm not great (and not being able to change role) to even see what I want drop, and then lose it to my co-healer anyway.
Clearly the best loot system.

... I can't see why people would be happy with that. Instead of trying to make another system adapted to the 24-raids, they are defaulting to the old flawed one just to provide people with the "Need" button. That's super lazy. There was tons of ideas on how to make a proper loot system for both old uncapped raids, and the newest one with the weekly lockout. But no. It'd have been too much work, I guess.

[Ilenya]

Can't wait to have to do it ten times as a healer and let people die because I'm not great (and not being able to change role) to even see what I want drop, and then lose it to my co-healer anyway.
Clearly the best loot system.

... I can't see why people would be happy with that. Instead of trying to make another system adapted to the 24-raids, they are defaulting to the old flawed one just to provide people with the "Need" button. That's super lazy. There was tons of ideas on how to make a proper loot system for both old uncapped raids, and the newest one with the weekly lockout. But no. It'd have been too much work, I guess.

I have a major issue with this, mostly because of personal experience. It is entirely possibly to win loot via greed even with the need enabled. Does it require luck, sure, but so does needing. Could you ask your party about it? Also yes. My second drop in WoD was the Tank body, which I managed to get (somehow) on my SCH. There's nothing in the world that stopped people from greeding on things under the Need/Greed system. Removing Need just made it so people who could need it could actually go for it.

[BillyKaplan]

Can't wait to have to do it ten times as a healer and let people die because I'm not great (and not being able to change role) to even see what I want drop, and then lose it to my co-healer anyway.

1. The Greed system isn't going anywhere! It's still there!
2. If you're not that good on your healer by your own admission, you shouldn't run the kind of content you need that gear for anyway. Don't you have better classes to use that weekly roll for?

Also, for all the Need-system's faults, the solution is absolutely not Greed-Only. Advocate for a different looting system, but don't ask to have a broken system in place just because the other one (that many people prefer!) isn't perfect either.

[Fyce]

I have a major issue with this, mostly because of personal experience. It is entirely possibly to win loot via greed even with the need enabled. Does it require luck, sure, but so does needing. Could you ask your party about it? Also yes. My second drop in WoD was the Tank body, which I managed to get (somehow) on my SCH. There's nothing in the world that stopped people from greeding on things under the Need/Greed system. Removing Need just made it so people who could need it could actually go for it.

I could say the same with greed only. "Does it require luck, sure".
I never got anything with Greed while Need was available, btw. So why would your experience be more relevant than mine?
Besides, good job at completly ignoring the whole point of my post.

1. The Greed system isn't going anywhere! It's still there!
2. If you're not that good on your healer by your own admission, you shouldn't run the kind of content you need that gear for anyway. Don't you have better classes to use that weekly roll for?

Also, for all the Need-system's faults, the solution is absolutely not Greed-Only. Advocate for a different looting system, but don't ask to have a broken system in place just because the other one (that many people prefer!) isn't perfect either.

1. Good luck trying to greed anything in 24-raids with "Need" in place.
2. This whole thread is about people saying "if you want gear for X job, then play X job!". And no, I have no other job I want to gear. So I will play healer. Deal with it, because that's pretty much all what the old system was about. A bunch of people on their alt-jobs playing badly simply for the sake of being able to press "Need". Player performance is irrelevant.

Finally, I never said that the new system is perfect, nor that I wanted it to stay. All I wanted was another better system. Don't put words in my mouth.

[BillyKaplan]

So I will play healer. Deal with it

I'll deal with it the same way I do with bad players now, carry as much as I can on my RDM. That's what I never got, Greed-Only didn't magically make everyone play well.
1. Not everyone adhered to the "bring your best geared, most comfortable job" silent rule the devs hoped for.
2. Not everyone were good to begin with even on that same job.
And even with that train-wreck, I'd rather you got healer gear when running as a healer instead of gearing up your bad healer while on your SMN, in the process stealing the gear from the healers who are keeping you alive who actually need it more because it's their main.

Ultimately bad players will exist regardless of the loot system. I really don't get people who pretend like everything'll go smoothly in every single run just because of Greed-Only.

[Fyce]

I'll deal with it the same way I do with bad players now, carry as much as I can on my RDM. That's what I never got, Greed-Only didn't magically make everyone play well.
1. Not everyone adhered to the "bring your best geared, most comfortable job" silent rule the devs hoped for.
2. Not everyone were good to begin with even on that same job.
And even with that train-wreck, I'd rather you got healer gear when running as a healer instead of gearing up your bad healer while on your SMN, in the process stealing the gear from the healers who are keeping you alive who actually need it more because it's their main.

Ultimately bad players will exist regardless of the loot system. I really don't get people who pretend like everything'll go smoothly in every single run just because of Greed-Only.

You don't get what I mean though. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I don't want to play healer and be bad at it in 24-raids. I'd much rather go in as my main and be good at it. But the Need/Greed loot system forces me to go in as a healer simply because Need exists, and that I don't want to take the abysmal chances of throwing a greed on it.

I still think that a system forcing people to run some content a high number of times on a job they might not want to play is a bad system. And that's exactly why I wanted another, more adapted one. Not the old one, and not the new one.

It seems that people will settle for a bad system simply because it's slightly better than another one. Shouldn't we want better than that? Shouldn't we want a system giving you the freedom to play whatever you want, while also giving you the loot you want?

I'm sorry but I can't be happy with a lazy solution which still leaves big flaws untouched. If that's good enough for most people, good for them. But it's not good enough for me.

[BillyKaplan]

a system forcing people to run some content a high number of times on a job they might not want to play

And this is what I don't get. I've seen several people oppose to this change because now they'll have to run on things they're bad on or that they hate. If you hate the job that much, don't run it.
In your case, bringing your bad healer. 1. Have you considered improving yourself so you can bring a good healer to these raids? Maybe switch a healer to one that better suits your style? 2. So you're a bad healer in a 24-player raid. As far as the party's concerned you're no different than the WHM-main who doesn't know what Medica II is. There'll be bad healers whether it's Need or Greed-Only.

It seems that people will settle for a bad system simply because it's slightly better than another one.

"Hey guys, the system you liked better isn't perfect, so you'll have to put up with a system you hate even more!" is what you're actually saying. It might not seem that way to you as you liked Greed-Only, but that's what it is.
I'd be thrilled to see a totem-system put in place for 24-player raid. Even with a ridiculous number of like 20 runs per week for it, it's better than some weeks where nothing even dropped for my role, let alone the specific piece I wanted. That's the ideal.
In the meanwhile, will we take the old, flawed system, over a system we think is far inferior? Absolutely yes. And now, if you feel so inclined, a campaign can start to get a better loot system.

[Emstidor]

You don't get what I mean though. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I don't want to play healer and be bad at it in 24-raids. I'd much rather go in as my main and be good at it. But the Need/Greed loot system forces me to go in as a healer simply because Need exists, and that I don't want to take the abysmal chances of throwing a greed on it. I still think that a system forcing people to run some content a high number of times on a job they might not want to play is a bad system. And that's exactly why I wanted another, more adapted one. Not the old one, and not the new one.

It seems that people will settle for a bad system simply because it's slightly better than another one. Shouldn't we want better than that? Shouldn't we want a system giving you the freedom to play whatever you want, while also giving you the loot you want?

I'm sorry but I can't be happy with a lazy solution which still leaves big flaws untouched. If that's good enough for most people, good for them. But it's not good enough for me.

If you don't want to run content as a healer, I don't see why you should have the same chance of getting healer gear as those who ARE willing to run that content as one.

[Rokke]

Can't wait to have to do it ten times as a healer and let people die because I'm not great (and not being able to change role) to even see what I want drop, and then lose it to my co-healer anyway.
Clearly the best loot system.

1. Good luck trying to greed anything in 24-raids with "Need" in place.
2. This whole thread is about people saying "if you want gear for X job, then play X job!". And no, I have no other job I want to gear. So I will play healer. Deal with it, because that's pretty much all what the old system was about. A bunch of people on their alt-jobs playing badly simply for the sake of being able to press "Need". Player performance is irrelevant.

You don't get what I mean though. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I don't want to play healer and be bad at it in 24-raids. I'd much rather go in as my main and be good at it. But the Need/Greed loot system forces me to go in as a healer simply because Need exists, and that I don't want to take the abysmal chances of throwing a greed on it.

- If you're afraid of killing people but want decent gear buy the i350 crafted set. Next patch will likely have a new crafting set if you want an even higher ilv.
- If you aren't gearing other classes, buy the i360 tome gear (same ilv as the 24 man). If you want i370 gear, run the raid as whatever class your heart desires and spend the coins on the upgrade.
- If you want to heal but don't want to do 24 mans, hunt and use your seals to buy the i370 upgrades

I don't understand why you feel the need to obtain high ilv gear for your healer if you're so awful at it, but you have options here.