Mechanisms of a playable Lupin race

[KisaiTenshi]

Plot: The Lupin have reasons to hate Garlmald. Lupin families were killed, separated, forced into labor, and used as conscripts over seas.

They have all the makings to be a central part in the story. They also seem to not resort to summoning primals, and to want peace for the realm. There’s also enemy Lupin that resorted to looting, and banditing In a similar matter to the poachers in Gridania.

Did we need another Lupin thread though? The last thread was started almost exactly a year ago: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ayable-race%21



I'm not against the idea of having more races. What I find is that players often make suggestions about another race without taking into either the lore or the technical requirements to do so. Lore-wise, yes the Lupin exist, but they physically exist in the same way the Ixal, Amalj'aa and Sahagin exist. They use the exact same Hyur animation rigs the players use. The Sylph and Moogles use the same "floating rig" and thus their attack animations aren't that different. The Tonberries and Namazu, aren't that far off the Lalafell's. So when people suggest a race that doesn't fit something that is already in the game, it requires a lot more animation effort than reusing an existing rig. A proper playable Lupin would have the same requirements as making any of the beast tribes that don't wear shoes playable. Mainly the animation cycle and the existing gear would not work.

The devs put a lot of effort into the individual animations for each race, so any additional race that can't reuse 90% of an existing race's animation is going to be very expensive. That's essentially why we only got two added for ARR (male Miqo'te and Female Roe) and the two for the Au Ra with HW. With that, those race/genders re-use most of the animation sets. Hence if the Lupin were to become a playable race, Just like the Viera, or some other humanoid, they would likely end up being variations on the Hyur or Elezen, and because the Lupin trend more "furry", the animation for the head would be harder to pull off than the Viera. However if they put effort into the feet/legs animations for one, they could reuse it for the other. Otherwise the largest way to cheese this requirement is to make the all foot gear for Lupin/Viera permanently attached like the heels on the female gender races. Hence they would end up walking like them, and while being less interesting, it saves animation budget.

From a lore point of view, the Lupin do not (yet) have a primal. However based on everything we know about the lore for the Doma area thus far, is based on the three relics of Japan, the Sword, Mirror and Jewel. Susanoo is the god of summer storms, which we wound up summoning at the Red Kojin's treasure room. Tsukuyomi is the god of the moon (summoned with a mirror), thus leaving an empty slot for Amaterasu being summoned.

Take a note of what Amaterasu looks like in Final Fantasy Dimensions II:


Like we likely haven't seen a beatman primal for the Lupin because they're saving her for later. But the devs could also mess with us.

[Rongway]

Take a note of what Amaterasu looks like in Final Fantasy Dimensions II:

Not arguing for or against any part of your post but this last part.
FFD2 had lots of eidolons, and some of them were way out there. It's not something we should seriously base anything XIV related on.

[Nestama]

A proper playable Lupin would have the same requirements as making any of the beast tribes that don't wear shoes playable. Mainly the animation cycle and the existing gear would not work.

I don't think feet will be an issue for Lupin. Just the hands and head... hell, maybe it is just the head that will require work. Those gloves he's wearing pretty much disregard his claws. SE is already giving them the 'Au Ra hat horn' treatment.

Oh hey, this is your screenshot.

Also the whole Primal thing is a non-issue considering the playable races have summoned a total of six currently (Phoenix, Shiva, Thordan, Sophia, Shinryu and you-know-who).

[Maeka]

Only problem with Lupin in the game, is their faces.... their muzzles don't move. They're half hanging open like they're wearing a mask. They'd have to fix that and make very complex animations to actually make their mouth look realistic (at least as realistic as the other races).

Because right now, the Lupin that are currently in game look terrible. When I heard that Lupin existed I was excited to meet one, and when I did, I see this derpy dog-morph standing in front of me with his jaws half open and even when he "talks", said jaw barely moves. I think even WoW Playable Worgen look better.

No offense to SE but it looks like they were kinda like "meh this is just an NPC race, we don't need to put as much detail into this as the playable races have". I mean, even the Ananta have nearly enough detail that they look like they could one day be playable.

Lupin? Not so much.

I think I've seen better facial animation from the namazu ......

[Rofel]

I believe they would improve things IF making it a playable race but I dunno if that would take a lot of work since as a WoL we mostly nod lol!

[Maeka]

I believe they would improve things IF making it a playable race but I dunno if that would take a lot of work since as a WoL we mostly nod lol!

There's all kinds of subtle facial expressions in a player character's repertoire. Lips, eyes, eye brows all play a part. The smiles, the angry glares, etc. And yes sometimes our PC actually talks (though what they say is not actually displayed as a text bubble).

[Corue]

Demographic: I’m not going to avoid it. They’d appeal well to the furries.

No. No. No. No. No. A thousand times no. Literally the last demographic any self-respecting company would want to appeal to is furries for reasons that are best left unexplored in this thread. Never has any designer in the history of MMOs made a race based on the premise of "we need something furries will like".
If we get a beast race the last thing I'd like is some lazy "dog head on human body" race design to appeal to a small demographic. This is Final bloody Fantasy, I want something unique and different with that FF charm.


Cat girls in Shisui gear are bad enough already. I don't want to see neon-coloured dog people running about in their underwear.

[Anatha]

No playable beast tribes. Stance still hasn't changed so far as I know.

[Rofel]

This is Final bloody Fantasy, I want something unique and different with that FF charm.

Gods forbid us to pay homage to one of the races alluded in FFV and VI. Jeez!

[KisaiTenshi]

I don't think feet will be an issue for Lupin. Just the hands and head... hell, maybe it is just the head that will require work. Those gloves he's wearing pretty much disregard his claws. SE is already giving them the 'Au Ra hat horn' treatment.

Oh hey, this is your screenshot.

Also the whole Primal thing is a non-issue considering the playable races have summoned a total of six currently (Phoenix, Shiva, Thordan, Sophia, Shinryu and you-know-who).

Yeah, but the thing I was highlighting was that the actual lore points to there being at least one more primal for the Doma area, and that is the only one that makes sense in the context given. The Namazu or Qiqirn have not summoned a primal, but they do have areas in the game where they're just field monsters, just like the Lupin. Namazu deviate from their own source lore not that much.

https://www.ancient.eu/Namazu/

Namazu’s efforts might bring destruction and despair but he does have a positive side. The catfish represented the regular renewal of the world known as yo-naoshi which was welcomed by the poor as an opportunity to shake up the wealthy classes, redistribute their accumulated riches, and make a new start.

Now doesn't that sound like their current plot for the beast tribe?

So with the Lupin, it seems almost a given for Amaterasu to be their Primal, but she could also be the final boss of Heaven-on-High in context, but that kind deflates her importance to the three treasures.

https://www.ancient.eu/Amaterasu/


But as I also mentioned, the devs don't necessarily have to adhere to the real-world lore they're deriving things from. But they're pretty much doing so even with the 4 lords storyline.

As for a playable Lupin race. As others have mentioned, even if the gear is cheesed (the screenshot I took is from late in the SB MSQ) the facial animation on the existing Lupin is basically "wolf mask on a Hyur" as they're not very animated. So that would not make for an interesting race to play if they're just a mask.