DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[Crystal_Raven]

All this mumbo jumbo of "garbage dps"

So you are saying that getting 1000 DPS or more under the average thus hitting enrage timers is a perfectly good thing and should be accepted as the norm.

Are you by any chance drunk? Or perhaps you've gotten high prior to making this post.

[Bernkastelx]

Well to be fair Tsu ex uptime strat is most likely the easiest strat for that fight with barely any movement during moon phase and not having to have people run across the room. Was a shame only got to witness it the first time after 70 clears of dps/healers being swapped backed in forth. I would do that strat over all the others in a heartbeat.

[Nariel]

So you are saying that getting 1000 DPS or more under the average thus hitting enrage timers is a perfectly good thing and should be accepted as the norm.

Are you by any chance drunk? Or perhaps you've gotten high prior to making this post.

I think you missed it so I'll help : "You do mechanics and you do decent damage and you'll clear 99% of the. "Savage content in this game."

[HoodRat]

It's funny because

world first party comps

and

"optimal party"

"optimal parties"

optimal meta party setup.

are two different things.

[akaneakki]

Depends, though. If the tank is in BiS and the DPS is only in 330s or something, well...

That's why I don't like putting labels on people. There's a lot of factors.

Yeah because 330 dps are in sigmscape right? I'm talking about recent events. I was only 353 warrior and I was top of the list, above 2 dps who never died and was around 360. You have to carefully explain why this is a thing, then you can explain to me why it happens. And if a dps is ilvl 330 vs a 350 tank, the dps can still outdps the tank, so I don't know why this is an excuse. And highly doubt tanks are bis in week 1 for new raiding.

[Jojoya]

So you are saying that getting 1000 DPS or more under the average thus hitting enrage timers is a perfectly good thing and should be accepted as the norm.

Are you by any chance drunk? Or perhaps you've gotten high prior to making this post.

Are enrage timers tuned around "average" DPS or around a different number? SE's design intent for DPS may not be the player community's "common knowledge" of what DPS "is supposed to be".

Ideally, the group should be doing the minimum DPS the encounter is tuned around, with anything over that a bonus. If that minimum is below what is commonly accepted as "average" DPS then yes, it's fine as long as it doesn't go below that minimum.

Any kill is a perfectly good thing, even if it happens as the group hits the enrage timer. There's no bonus for speed kills.

But how many wipes are because the group has hit enrage as opposed to failing a mechanics check? I haven't made it into FFXIV end game raiding yet but in WoW it was extremely rare to see wipes happening at enrage with almost everyone still standing. Wipes were inevitably because of mechanics failures that killed off most of the group long before enrage would happen.

If you're always hitting enrage with everyone still standing, then start looking at the DPS. If you're wiping before that or half the group is dead when you reach enrage, address the other issues.

[Crystal_Raven]

Are enrage timers tuned around "average" DPS or around a different number? SE's design intent for DPS may not be the player community's "common knowledge" of what DPS "is supposed to be".

Ideally, the group should be doing the minimum DPS the encounter is tuned around, with anything over that a bonus. If that minimum is below what is commonly accepted as "average" DPS then yes, it's fine as long as it doesn't go below that minimum.

Any kill is a perfectly good thing, even if it happens as the group hits the enrage timer. There's no bonus for speed kills.

But how many wipes are because the group has hit enrage as opposed to failing a mechanics check? I haven't made it into FFXIV end game raiding yet but in WoW it was extremely rare to see wipes happening at enrage with almost everyone still standing. Wipes were inevitably because of mechanics failures that killed off most of the group long before enrage would happen.

If you're always hitting enrage with everyone still standing, then start looking at the DPS. If you're wiping before that or half the group is dead when you reach enrage, address the other issues.

In WoW it's almost always a mechanical wipe rather than DPS check wipe. In FF14 it tends to be a combination of both. DPS fail easy mechanics, die, revival takes time as instant cast is on a 60 second cooldown, and while they are alive they do either average or below average damage. This is where the problem is. I've gotten past quite a few enrage checks even with DPS messing up mechanics just because when they were alive, they did above average damage to compensate for the time they spent dead, so the enrage timer was passed with a little extra effort from the rest of us.

However, i've also been in quite a few raids where no one died, but the DPS check failed simply because the DPS players in our party were doing damage so low it was disgusting to watch. It's pretty common in this game that people go below that minimum as you called it and expect the rest of the party to pick up their slack and carry them through the raid, to me this is unacceptable. If you are unable to pull your own weight in a raid, do not join that raid, instead join something more suited to your skill level.

It seems a lot of people misunderstand the "team" aspect of most online games. We aren't here to carry you, we aren't here to pick up your slack, we are here to play the game and have fun. If your incompetence stops that, don't act so surprised when you get removed from the party.

You is used as a general term, not you personally. I feel like this needs to be said to avoid unnecessary arguments.

[Lunaxia]

really

Did you even read my posts before you made this? Do you even know anything about my stance on this? Going off your previous post, I'm going with no. You're lumping in me with another poster who had an entirely different disagreement and dragging it on. To what end, I don't know.

I'm not on the "opposite end." I don't have a problem with being parsed. I think it has its uses. I don't think it's a good idea to put it in game, but it can be helpful, and if someone wants to know their numbers, they should.

Work on your reading comprehension before throwing out pointless remarks about the state of other people's posts.

[Luin]

End of story, yes. In this raid tier with i350, if you do 4k damage, you did garbage damage. Most were pulling 4k on Monk in i320.

Tanks can pull 4k dps. You should be pulling at the absolute, true, utter, bare minimum, 4.5k without any party buffs, food, or potions, not in a dummy fight, and regardless of job (Monk should be pulling more like 5500 on a dummy). Bard/Machinist does not *need* Dragoon or rng to hit that much, no job has an excuse for hitting so weak.

Your job is to do damage. You're only doing 4k, you're not doing damage. 4.5k isn't even good, it can't even clear SSS. Don't read that and take that as a goal, take that as motivation to actually learn. Your goal should always be more damage.

All this mumbo jumbo of "garbage dps" "optimal party", etc. 90% of players you come across in pf that demand "optimal parties" or "up time" strats, etc aren't even good enough to fully benefit from their own demands.

You do mechanics and you do decent damage and you'll clear 99% of the. "Savage content in this game.

You'll eventually learn that the people in pf requiring world first party comps and strats are the trapiest traps to ever trap.

4k isn't decent, it's not even enough to clear enrage on Tsukuyomi.

This post wasn't about party comp, it's looking for validation for dealing garbage damage. And there is no validation, especially for a Monk. If you're doing 4k damage as a dps, you simply do not have any idea how to play your job. I've died in o6s with i350, multiple times, as a drg, and still did significantly more than 4k. There's zero excuse for so little damage.

[KaivaC]

4k isn't decent, it's not even enough to clear enrage on Tsukuyomi.

This post wasn't about party comp, it's looking for validation for dealing garbage damage. And there is no validation, especially for a Monk. If you're doing 4k damage as a dps, you simply do not have any idea how to play your job. I've died in o6s with i350, multiple times, as a drg, and still did significantly more than 4k. There's zero excuse for so little damage.

Disregard this response. I did have something to respond with, but then I re-read your comments about Monk as I was typing it, and realize that you likely have a good point about my job. Carry on.

So why dont use some middle way, which benefit both sides. My idea is very simpel: Give the leader the option to turn on/off ingame parsers when selecting the Savage content. Yes, ONLY SAVAGE.

I do agree with this. If we could get something similar to Duty Recorder where its an opt-in system for Savage and Ex only, I think that would be the best middle ground that we could get. Even better if the devs could work with the ACT model that already exists.