Confused about people's obsession with open world raids/dungeons.

[WiiSam]

Please read the thread again, or for the first since it seems you didn't bother to. The people arguing in favor for open world content have all agreed on the need for instances and other sorts of content. This wiisam character is the only person who refuses to budge from his view that open world content and competition are bad!

Hold up, I think it's unfair to say I refuse to budge. My view point has changed quite a bit since this thread started and that was definitely its purpose. I have gottena lot of feedback and lots of very interesting informaiton. I thank you all again for participating and would like to apologize if anyone has misread my tone (although, if you did, it is you who has been over-emotional, I have been quite civilized.)

That being said let me recap where my opinion is at:

Again, I am not saying that there shouldn't be any open world content. I am saying that open world content can be as many as SE wants to implement but they she refrain from being competitive like the current strongholds. I put a link to another thread of someone complaining about the competition I find negative.

I am not saying (even though in the OP it may seem like I did, but I repeat, my opinion has evolved as mentioned above) that there shouldn't be any open world "dungeons". I am saying that they should be plenty but they should not carry important loot especially not from a drop from the boss. They should be quests/faction grinding/item collection or whatever. And like one guy said not ONE enemy should drop the key. Every mob should in the dungeon should.

I am also saying let us keep roaming NMs for the competitive factor because of how cool the idea is of a roaming NM. That competition is perfectly fine because it is AWESOME to see a roaming NM get defeated either by you or another party. So you're asking, why let the roaming NMs be competitive but not the strongholds? Because the strongholds feel more like a grind when it competitive, no awesome, epic feel to it. You're grinding against another party or person for a very boring claim to get a coffer key, eg the Natalan Sentry. How is that good competition? It is just a silly claim war/grind to try to get the key.

If I wasn't clear about anything please point it out for me and I will try to explain in more detail. Reading the above, how can anyone really say I'm not compromising? I love open world, just don't want it to be a grinding and vicious competition. That is not a valid way to promote open world content. A fun way to promote it is to provide people with reasons to want to team up and enjoy content instead of wanting at each others' throats for it.

[Richard_BG]

why should they refrain from making it competitive? this is an mmo. mmos generally SPEW competition from every orifice and its a GREAT thing. It builds character, it's fun and it's engaging. Even in instanced raids/content there is competition to be the fastest and the most efficient and the first to complete it. xiv, like any other mmo, should house competition in instanced content as well as open world - EQUALLY.

[WiiSam]

why should they refrain from making it competitive? this is an mmo. mmos generally SPEW competition from every orifice and its a GREAT thing. It builds character, it's fun and it's engaging. Even in instanced raids/content there is competition to be the fastest and the most efficient and the first to complete it. xiv, like any other mmo, should house competition in instanced content as well as open world - EQUALLY.

You're as stubborn as I am. Instances make the competition fair and civil, thats why they were created!

If they both foster competition, which is a good thing, why don't we just have all open world? or all instances? Don't be ignorant, please. The competition in instances is a completely different ball game to the competition in open world. In instances you work at your own pace and can only fail if YOU aren't good enough. In open world there are many varying outside factors that can screw up your chances. Factors that have nothing to do with an individual or a groups SKILL.

[Richard_BG]

You're as stubborn as I am. Instances make the competition fair and civil, thats why they were created!

If they both foster competition, which is a good thing, why don't we just have all open world? or all instances? Don't be ignorant, please. The competition in instances is a completely different ball game to the competition in open world. In instances you work at your own pace and can only fail if YOU aren't good enough. In open world there are many varying outside factors that can screw up your chances. Factors that have nothing to do with an individual or a groups SKILL.

because catering to both sides is never a bad thing? Open world/instanced competition are two forms of competition just as everything in the entire world has multiple forms of competition? Online sales vs Brick and Mortar stores?

Being stubborn is pushing your one sided opinions on the masses while I on the other hand try and offer up both sides of the solution. The reason there isn't just one or the other ALREADY is because a smart company doesn't exclude specific groups of people. FFXI has both, WoW (had) both, XIV has both.

[WiiSam]

because catering to both sides is never a bad thing? Open world/instanced competition are two forms of competition just as everything in the entire world has multiple forms of competition? Online sales vs Brick and Mortar stores?

Being stubborn is pushing your one sided opinions on the masses while I on the other hand try and offer up both sides of the solution. The reason there isn't just one or the other ALREADY is because a smart company doesn't exclude specific groups of people. FFXI has both, WoW (had) both, XIV has both.

WoW when it first came out had exactly what I am talking about. And that is when WoW was its BEST. Pre-BC. The ONLY competitive open world content they had was roaming NMs. I repeat, THE ONLY. And I am ok with roaming nms, I want roaming nms. WoW had the PERFECT recipe when it first came out. All dungeons with highly sought after loot was instanced, and open world content was promoted through quests and other various outdoor activities that were VERY engaging, especially world pvp. Every dungeon, I repeat EVERY dungeon, even had a semi-tough outdoor area that most times you couldn't blast threw solo. You rolled up with your group, killed some shit, saw other people doing the same, got to instance entrance and did your thing.

I love that you used the old WoW as an example. Nothing was better.

[Richard_BG]

so you would rather have open world NMs that drop mediocre loot that people can do for kicks and have all of the best saught after loot instanced only? Is that a fair statement?

[WiiSam]

so you would rather have open world NMs that drop mediocre loot that people can do for kicks and have all of the best saught after loot instanced only? Is that a fair statement?

omg man roaming NMs are fine, they can drop the best loot if they want. You're really jonesin' for something I say to be wrong. Roaming NMs are fine, the roaming NMs in WoW had at least one piece of loot that was comparable to the end game dungeon loot. It's fine. I gave my reasons as to why roaming NMs are a GOOD thing. Let us move on from this one finally and tell me how the strongholds in their current state are a good thing.

[Richard_BG]

i never commented on your outlook of roaming nms so you should probably chill and take a riddlin. besides the fact that xiv stronghold nms are jam packed at the end of a long path of mobs guarding it, how do you equate there being a difference between "roaming" nms such as Ixion or Sandworm vs. current stronghold nms? I mean XI had plenty of beastmen NMs that sat at the end of the proverbial trashmob route and it worked just as well.

[WiiSam]

i never commented on your outlook of roaming nms so you should probably chill and take a riddlin. besides the fact that xiv stronghold nms are jam packed at the end of a long path of mobs guarding it, how do you equate there being a difference between "roaming" nms such as Ixion or Sandworm vs. current stronghold nms? I mean XI had plenty of beastmen NMs that sat at the end of the proverbial trashmob route and it worked just as well.

Because quite a few people made a point about roaming NMS saying that they are super fun because you can have tons of spectators. Its a social event. How are all those people going to get through all the trash for this "social event". It is an aspect that a lot of people love about roaming NMs, I always used to go watch other guilds beat open world bosses in WoW when my guild wasn't ready. Shit was awesome! But busting through a bunch of trash and getting to a small room in a dungeon with an NM and competing over it with another LS (or two) is a bit silly. You are all squished and screwing each others' chances. Its vicious and does not promote this whole immersion of outdoor MMo open world feel everyone wants.

Edit - And your statement that got a bit riled up was created from thin air. You conjured a statement from nothing and said it was my opinion. I apologize. Riddlin consumed.

[Richard_BG]

Because quite a few people made a point about roaming NMS saying that they are super fun because you can have tons of spectators. Its a social event. How are all those people going to get through all the trash for this "social event". It is an aspect that a lot of people love about roaming NMs, I always used to go watch other guilds beat open world bosses in WoW when my guild wasn't ready. Shit was awesome! But busting through a bunch of trash and getting to a small room in a dungeon with an NM and competing over it with another LS (or two) is a bit silly. You are all squished and screwing each others' chances. Its vicious and does not promote this whole immersion of outdoor MMo open world feel everyone wants.

"social events" is a pretty weak argument for not having an NM at the end of an "outdoor dungeon" rofl



aaaaaand im done. ahaha