DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[Remus]

Whenever new content is launched that we all had to start from the bottom and work ourselves up together, people calling others garbage tier have no clue what they're saying.

I'm not sure how to respond to this because this all comes down to what you see as the bottom. For example if we look at my deltascape 1 savage clear (my first clear by the way and no deaths from me on July 29th 2017) I had 4684 DPS and that was with ilvl 320 from crafted gear. If I was doing 4k then why should people be doing 4k when we are at 360 gear or even 370 if you spam hunts?

When you say new content I don't know if you mean 4.x patches or expansions. If you mean expansions then that's expected because everyone will have new rotations due to new skills. That only happens every new expansion which is not often. When new content drops your rotation doesn't change. The fight may change but that should effect your that much unless you die or being very careful which is fair.

Like Maero said just join the balance discord, people there will help you learn your job and rotations and such. Honestly the mentality "If it dies then it's fine" is the worse mind set you can have when it comes to an MMO. Most likely there are things you could do better from your last kill and make the next one even quicker if you are trying to farm primal weapons or mounts for example.

[Jellybums]

Like Maero said just join the balance discord, people there will help you learn your job and rotations and such. Honestly the mentality "If it dies then it's fine" is the worse mind set you can have when it comes to an MMO. Most likely there are things you could do better from your last kill and make the next one even quicker if you are trying to farm primal weapons or mounts for example.

Bruh, that's a bad plug. If people can/wanna go out of their way to get good, they will, there's ways. Everybody knows that. But not everybody who likes playing a game of pick-up now and then is gonna sign up for camp to get good. They get good on their own pace. You don't see the likes of Kobe playing with the general population of ballers and calling them garbage tier for not being good enough to be in the D League. Some folks need to get over themselves. For real.

[NoctusT]

Whenever new content is launched that we all had to start from the bottom and work ourselves up together, people calling others garbage tier have no clue what they're saying.

You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

[Nemekh]

This is a topic near and dear to my heart as I spend a majority of my free time helping other people improve their play for the game both in-game and through other platforms such as Discord - The Balance in particular.

There is a significant spread of skill levels when it comes to the player base and generally, when you help with coaching for long enough through experience you come to know the general goals, plays, and errors for players in particular performance brackets. With this comes the knowledge of ballpark numbers and dps boundaries given various constraints, contexts and factors. I have the luxury of also having worked out and for a long time used the formulae the community use to figure out damage figures and thus dps, so this gives even greater understanding in what can be considered low and high for a given job (my specialty being but certainly not limited to SMN).

When someone comes to the SMN channels for assistance and I notice that they are in fact performing at the lower end I will never call them garbage-tier. Just for recognising that they might be doing things incorrectly and coming forth seeking help with a willingness to learn takes a good deal of courage. Big fan of people like that, it's also why the job channels exist in the first place - to provide assistance to those that want to do better.

However, if someone were to link a clean fight log (no deaths from them) and ask "is x dps at ilvl y good?" I will be blunt and honest with truthful feedback after assessing the factors at hand. If I see horrors in your rotation I will bring them to light with a NotLikeDuck or PaissaSquint, just as I will praise things done consistently and well. The feedback must be balanced and fair.

4k for dps jobs was fairly respectable back when Ala Mhigan gear was the best available and people were still figuring things out (think back to when Susano and Lakshmi were the only raids). We are very far into the expansion now with job mechanics ironed out and lots of gear upgrades later. If someone is more contemporarily geared and as a DPS job are doing closer to or less than 4000 dps then there are some serious play errors happening.

Thus to answer in the context of where the majority of people asking such a question come from in character progression: no, 4k is not good and not close to respectable for DPS jobs at contemporary gear levels, even from i340+ when we consider Deltascape numbers and that dungeon gear is now at i345.

But now more aware, people have a decision to make:

Do they recognise that they could improve and if so, are prepared to spend some time doing so?
Are they content where they are not wanting to change, choosing to remain aware that they are making mistakes but being ok with that fact?
Are they refusing to accept responsibility that they are capable of mistakes and thus see no need to change?

If the first then that's great, there's lots of good resources online and in discords to help you there, not to mention helpful souls like I strive to be.
If the second then that's fine, you're playing the game as you wish to, though be aware in how your preferences can impact the play experience of others.

The only thing that's truly "garbage" in my eyes is the attitude surrounding the third and the tendency to be very defensive, deflect and typically blame parsers and people who parse. There is always something someone can learn to do better no matter where they sit in terms of play ability - regardless of whether the errors were identified with a parser or otherwise.

[Remus]

Bruh, that's a bad plug. If people can/wanna go out of their way to get good, they will, there's ways. Everybody knows that.But not everybody who likes playing a game of pick-up now and then is gonna sign up for camp to get good. They get good on their own pace. You don't see the likes of Kobe playing with the general population of ballers and calling them garbage tier for not being good enough to be in the D League. Some folks need to get over themselves. For real.

You can call it a bad plug but I am telling the playerbase a place they can go to learn from very good players who dedicate time to make rotations and openers about their class so if you want to call it a bad plug then whatever (it's not even my discord server but a very helpful and useful one for learning your class).

I didn't say people can't learn at their own pace. That doesn't stop them from still looking at those resources and slowly working at it at their own pace (it's almost been a year since stormblood released). If you actually looked at my post on page 9 (I can't remember but it's close to that) I didn't think the post I made somewhere else on this forum would spark a discussion because I didn't think people would take it seriously. I even said in my post in this thread I wouldn't say garbage but below average instead.

With that said, my point still stands. The fact that I am was able to do 4684 dps in 320 gear shouldn't excuse people from doing at least 5k in 360+.

You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

I actually saw that and I was thinking of putting that in my initial post but I thought that would be in bad taste. I try not to bring up other people's dps because it is a little rude especially if they have no knowledge of it even being there.

snip

We need more people like you.

[NoctusT]

@Remus I don’t bring up folks’ DPS normally but I just dislike people who say shit like that. Especially when they blame gear for bad play. Well that and this is a thread about people’s general DPS.

[Atreides]

You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

This is bad news, a DRG should be death for at last half the fight or he isn't doing his job!

[Asiragan]

You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

Man, how long should I wait before this thread explode with people saying that "this is fine since the boss died anyway!" ?

[NewAgeDoom]

This is bad news, a DRG should be death for at last half the fight or he isn't doing his job!

Healers clearly didn't adjust enough.

[Maeka]

So on curiosity I checked fflogs, and apparently nobody who's ran with me caught me in any of their parses lol.

But then again I doubt very many people log DF stuff.