DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[Maeka]

I'm of mixed minds about this whole kinda thing...

First, yeah I can understand the players running Roulettes, Delta/Sigma and junk for stuff like mounts, and they get frustrated if things are taking too long. Hey I get that. But on the other hand...

The Game doesn't come with any kind of way for a player to know their own DPS, and your average player is probably not going to mess around with parsing, especially if they have no intention of ever stepping foot into a Savage Raid, and in fact, some players might be leery of using such programs because of SE's repeated "Don't use 3rd Party Software with the game!" warnings.

I'm not saying someone would get banned over parsing, as people have obviously been using said tools for quite awhile now and they don't get banned, but yet I could understand how a Sprout might be intimidated, and decide to play it safe and not mess with such stuff.

And as others have said, there are so many factors into what makes your DPS. Your weapon, for example. SE consistently makes weapons the hardest things to get because they have such a huge impact on your performance. But yet, if you're some unlucky joe who can never seem to get drops anywhere and you're not really enjoying the wipefests at the Ex Primals (I am hesitant to try one myself because I don't really enjoy that kind of play where you have to play almost perfectly to clear it) and maybe they don't want to wait 7 weeks to get 7 crystalloids, and maybe falling asleep at the NM train at Eureka isn't the most fun thing to do either...... how ELSE are you supposed to get a weapon, then? Kinda wish SE wasn't so stingy with weapons.

So, those joes with the 330 deltascape weapons... yeah I can understand if they are doing crap DPS even if they're wearing full 345 with the rest of their gear.

As someone mentioned above... Casters.

I've not gotten one to 70 yet, but Dear Lord, the AoE dodging is ANNOYING for anything that has to stand and cast. Start casting, circle appears under your feet. Oop, gotta move. Start casting, another circle appears under your feet. How exactly am I supposed to do any DPS, again? One of the reasons I've not been playing BLM, to be honest. I got it to some Lv40 and some of the bosses in the dungeons were just plain annoying because you have to keep dodging and it screws up your casting constantly.

I couldn't imagine trying to do something like Castrum Fluminis as a caster. No thanks. You can count me out on that.

Now, nowhere in this am I saying that one shouldn't try to improve, at least a little, if they are doing subpar DPS for their gear level... but yet at the same time, I don't like to shame people, because honestly we all come to a video game to have fun, and when you sign up for DF, you should always be prepared to get into a random with clueless people or people who do nothing but mash buttons.

Every time I Q up for a dungeon, I am prepared to carry people, and I generally tend to not get annoyed if I have to carry somebody, as long as we're not constantly wiping. A few wipes I can understand, but I would hope to see improvement. If not, well... they'll probably ragequit and we'll get better replacements, lol

[Alaray]

I'm of mixed minds about this whole kinda thing...

The Game doesn't come with any kind of way for a player to know their own DPS

The game doesn't really teach players too well, no, but there is an in-game way to gauge whether or not your damage output is going to be alright for pieces of content you want to do (Stone, Sea and Sky). Yes, the game does not actually take you directly to it, but it is a good tool and it's normally one I'd recommend for someone who can't use a parsing tool/doesn't wish to use a parsing tool.

Generally, if you can kill the dummy you know your class and rotation well enough to go into that encounter. Of course, in the encounter, things like optimization come into play (as do other things, like melds, food, potions, raid buffs, etc...) and one major optimization tool is finding ways to increase uptime on the boss. In a learning environment, damage in general will be a lot lower as people are still learning the mechanics and that's fine.

In a farm party, however, it'll be expected that a player can pull their weight in the group and not hold it back. And, generally, a lot of people consider 5k~ the base minimum for pulling weight as a DPS for the current tier of gear. Since the goal of a farm party is to quickly and efficiently kill the boss, and if someone enters into one without being prepared to do that, then they shouldn't have gone into that group.

And as others have said, there are so many factors into what makes your DPS. Your weapon, for example.

So, those joes with the 330 deltascape weapons... yeah I can understand if they are doing crap DPS even if they're wearing full 345 with the rest of their gear.

Weapon is a factor to consider, as is gear in general. You can do fantastic damage output with what tools and gear you have available for that ilvl, but does that mean someone in 330 gear should go into O8S? No.

If you're in gear that's too low for the content, then you won't be able to perform in the content because it's not tuned to that gear level. It's not a player issue at that point, but just a situation of needing to utilize available avenues to gear oneself up (Crafted gear/Sigma Normal gear/Eureka gear/Byakko Weapons/Tomestone items/Tsukiyomi weapons/etc...)

This doesn't have something to do with a skill-level, this is just a "you need to take steps 1 through 10 before jumping from 0 to 11."

As someone mentioned above... Casters.

I couldn't imagine trying to do something like Castrum Fluminis as a caster. No thanks. You can count me out on that.

There are players who are able to do extremely well on these encounters who play casters, from what I'm reading, it just seems to me that the particular role isn't one you'd enjoy to play at that level -- and that's fine, everyone has different preferences for playstyle and that's why there's a multitude of classes that offer different ones to choose from. But it doesn't mean "casters must really suck here" it's just a different approach to the fight and different things to learn through the fight.

Now, nowhere in this am I saying that one shouldn't try to improve, at least a little, if they are doing subpar DPS for their gear level... but yet at the same time, I don't like to shame people, because honestly we all come to a video game to have fun, and when you sign up for DF, you should always be prepared to get into a random with clueless people or people who do nothing but mash buttons.

Every time I Q up for a dungeon, I am prepared to carry people, and I generally tend to not get annoyed if I have to carry somebody, as long as we're not constantly wiping. A few wipes I can understand, but I would hope to see improvement. If not, well... they'll probably ragequit and we'll get better replacements, lol

To be honest, dungeons/normal trials/normal raids I never really care about the performance of the people around me. There's no enrage in these encounters (well, I guess besides the Steps of Faith?) and I'm aware of what I signed up for when I queued in the first place.

But a lot of this discussion is centered around higher-end content (EX Primals > Savage at least), and those fights are a DPS race (they all, generally, have an enrage on them) and some bosses have miniature DPS checks (O7S/Phantom Train for example). And if DPS in the encounter cannot pass the bar for those mechanics, or for the enrage, then in order to complete the encounter they should work to improve their own gameplay and take the time to practice on the dummies made available.

At the end of the day, yes tanks hold the boss and mitigate hits. Healers are expected to use their healing buttons at some point, and DPS are expected to output enough damage to offset the likelihood for enrage. (at the basic level and only considering the roles themselves).

Granted, I'm sure people would not enjoy running content with a tank who doesn't know how to generate adequate threat, I'm also sure people would not enjoy content where a healer is not healing the party at all and everyone is dying. Everyone, ultimately, contributes to the success of a party and it's not fun in a higher-tier piece of content to feel like you're carrying someone the entire time when you're working on yourself still.