DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[KDSilver]

I consider Expert Roulette, NM Trials and Sigmascape as content to try and learn classes.
So yeah, you might sometimes ee Tank and even healers doing better DPS than DPS themselves, but that's okay, there needs to be a place to train your rotation/reaction to mechanics. I wouldn't call them "garbage", even if you should at least master the very basics from your leveling.

However, as for Exreme and Savage, average skill level is at least required. Won't call them garbage for that, but more people that should train more on easier content first before jumping too fast on a harder one.

[NephthysVasudan]

I'm just gonna say it.

I don't need no stupid parser....or numbers..to tell me if your doing "garbage damage"

Period.

This means your doing poor....this dosen't mean I'm going to call you out....this does mean I'll start pestering you to up your game.....and quite possibly black list you if you just flat don't care.

That said....you pull your weight...I couldn't care less how much damage your doing. As long as your doing your part.

[ko_]

I'm kindof starting to hate numbers myself. I seemed to hit a wall in savage and I think I'm at the point where I'm just at my limit. D: I'mma see what I can do cause atm my highest number on 06s is 4.8 and I know thats low. I really want to hit higher but I'm just hitting the wall and I'm so lost. :c

[KaivaC]

I didn't think that the comment about garbage was exactly, but I just wanted to share to make sure that it was an opinion shared by others as well. And it does make sense too. Average right now should be about 6k for most dps. The begs the question of why a lot of folks are still doing Deltascape damage.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

5k is where most DPS should strive to be at, this is not unreasonable to meet so long as you're making the most of your abilities. High 4ks aren't bad either, but 5k is definitely what you should be trying to hit as a raider.

6K is going into optimization territory, and knowing the fight extremely well.

As for 7k-8k, 7K will depend on your raid comp, while 8k was probably fed buffs.

[HyoMinPark]

If they are hitting 4k worth of damage, does this automatically make them a garbage tier player?

There are several variables that you have to consider with regards to the statement that was made, which is being taken a bit out of context considering the thread topic (off-topic, since it was derailed) this comment appeared in (which the debate was about the significance of healer DPS, and what the averages for DPS are currently in Savage content).

The variables to consider are:
—Gear: variations in gear and item level have a significant impact on a person’s DPS—a BRD in i350 crafted is going to do significantly less than an i370 BiS BRD (considering that the two are of equal skill).
—Job: within the DPS role, there is a significant difference between the higher-tier DPS (BLM, SMN, MNK) and lower-tier DPS (NIN, RDM, BRD); this increases as item level discrepanicies increase—an i370 BiS BLM is going to wipe the floor with a NIN in i350 crafted gear.
—Party comp: some party comps are more favorable for some jobs; example: BRD/MCH + DRG—BRD/MCH will do more personal DPS with a DRG in the party with them. And, of course, there are meta comps to consider with their rBuffs.
—Kill time: kill time affects DPS; the shorter the kill time, naturally the higher your DPS is going to be.
—Content: the content in question will also have varying rDPS requirements needed to kill it, and the piece of content itself can determine an individual’s DPS, and what is acceptable and what is not (i.e., 4k DPS isn’t that big of a deal in dungeons or a 24-man; in God Kefka, it is a huge deal to be that low).
—Deaths: if you die, that’s a 25% debuff to your damage; Brink of Death is 50%. You can kiss your damage good-bye with either of those.


There seem to be a lot of variables that you are not considering, and are just taking this comment at face value. There are tons of things to consider when looking at a player and their damage.

I'm just gonna say it.

I don't need no stupid parser....or numbers..to tell me if your doing "garbage damage"

Uh, if you don’t have “no stupid parser” telling you what a person’s DPS is, then how do you know if they are doing poorly or not? This makes no sense. You can’t possibly know how much damage a person is doing without a parser...unless you stop in the middle of the fight and try to individually calculate everything in the Battle Log. To which I say, good luck with that.

[Liam_Harper]

It's interesting that FF14 doesn't have any official parsers or facilitate add-ons to prevent players from shaming others over dps... yet we have threads like this and plenty of comments on numbers, both on forums and ingame.

The average player is at a disadvantage really. They don't use Act. There is no visual indicator that their dps is good or bad or whether their rotation is off. In the open world soloing it's hard to see a difference between 3.9k and 5k dps, you might still burst well and things still die fast so you can't tell if you're underperforming or by how much. Then one day you step into your first savage content and do terrible and get told you suck and have no idea why.

[Jellybums]

Put me in the garbage tier then. I can't use a parser. I'm still learning DPS classes and pat myself on the back for doing the job right or try to (there's online guides for that). There's probably plenty of garbage DPS like me you run into DF because it doesn't discriminate. When you label random players negatively, you're only making yourself uncomfortable around them or even just the thought of playing with them. I don't wanna carry such baggage around. I'm just trying to play my game, kill it, feel good about myself. Nobody got time thinking toxic thoughts when they tryna have fun.

[Nabril]

I wouldn't even know how to tell how much DPS someone is doing- not in this game. I mean... it's not like we can just load an addon like Recount (for the WoW players).

But it also depends on the fight- some fights require a player to dance all over the dance floor and a spellcaster just can't keep up in that kind of mechanic. Most my spells take over 1 second to cast - possibly 2, and that's just not going to happen if that pretty yellow circle or stripe appears beneath me every 0.05 seconds.

[KaivaC]

There seem to be a lot of variables that you are not considering, and are just taking this comment at face value. There are tons of things to consider when looking at a player and their damage.

Well yeah, that was pretty much the point - I took that particular comment at face value, simplified the idea behind discussion, and made it purely about straight damage. Naturally, there are always other factors to take in consideration, namely everything that you just mentioned. But at the end of the day, I'm just posing the question for a general consensus about it - not really thinking about all that extra stuff that one normally does need to think about during a raid.

It's interesting that FF14 doesn't have any official parsers or facilitate add-ons to prevent players from shaming others over dps... yet we have threads like this and plenty of comments on numbers, both on forums and ingame.

The average player is at a disadvantage really. They don't use Act. There is no visual indicator that their dps is good or bad or whether their rotation is off. In the open world soloing it's hard to see a difference between 3.9k and 5k dps, you might still burst well and things still die fast so you can't tell if you're underperforming or by how much. Then one day you step into your first savage content and do terrible and get told you suck and have no idea why.

Part of that is on the devs, though. They don't want parsers in-game, yet they very much tune into the World Races to see who will be the first to clear whatever they drop. The tools themselves give so much valuable information that it would hurt the raiding community to lose them over fears of another Koike Incident happening (funny how they use that to defend their stance on parsers, but they said next to nothing official when players went after that couple that bought a dozen houses on Mateus and got harassed severely over it). Threads like this exist because it's just ridiculous how much harassment happens over other things, yet when it comes to parsers, people start fearmongering that widespread harassment is suddenly going to flare up.

Put me in the garbage tier then. I can't use a parser. I'm still learning DPS classes and pat myself on the back for doing the job right or try to (there's online guides for that). There's probably plenty of garbage DPS like me you run into DF because it doesn't discriminate. When you label random players negatively, you're only making yourself uncomfortable around them or even just the thought of playing with them. I don't wanna carry such baggage around. I'm just trying to play my game, kill it, feel good about myself. Nobody got time thinking toxic thoughts when they tryna have fun.

I am not sure if you raid or not, but if you don't, then this really wasn't posed towards you. The thread is aimed specifically at Savage raiding. In casual content, it really doesn't matter unless one is hitting enrage a lot (ARR doesn't count because the soft enrages are more likely to kill you than the hard enrages...plus those have actual enrage mechanics that force people to respect them). I learned this lesson the hard way, but one should not be raiding at all if they are learning how to play their DPS job.