(Rant Post) Why Does It Feel Like Giving Advice Is Evil?

[Vhailor]

Someone, please, explain to me why ANY advice is taken as some criminal offence. It doesn't matter what the advice is about. It could be basic rotations, could be stats, could be how to handle X mechanic properly, it doesn't matter. I've been ignored, lashed at, even harassed OUTSIDE THE DUNGEON over it.

I think there are many factors at play. A few of the key ones, in my estimation, are as follows:

(a) Tone doesn't translate well over the internet, as others have mentioned; this turns advice into an order, and people get angry over that. This is amplified tremendously by SE's asinine decision to not permit /tells within instances: any advice doubles as a shout-out to the group that you're screwing something up. Public embarrassment, even if it isn't intended, rarely generates good results.

(b) Even the most basic fights are really quite complex from a mechanical standpoint, which makes change stressful. I mean, if you think about it, we're managing ability rotations, AoE avoidance, and general mechanics, all at the same time, and all at high speed. The idea of changing on the fly is stressful. This isn't FFXI, wherein a change in strategy is something you have real time to process.

(c) There's absolutely no reason to be nice and/or receptive to advice, since the Duty Finder immunizes people against the effects of a bad reputation.

(d) Fights are made to be spammed, which means there's a strong inclination to stay with the 'meta' approach (i.e. what you'll find in mainstream YouTube video guides). After all, why change things up if the next group is going to push you right back to the generic strategy you clearly haven't yet mastered?

There's certainly more reasons, but those are some factors off the top of my head. Honestly, at this point I simply won't give advice within a battlefield, and I'd never dream of going against the general meta strategies. It's just not worth the stress.

I have found people are rarely receptive to advice unless it's painfully clear that a huge problem is taking place. When an obstacle cannot be passed, people are more likely to consider other options because they have no other choice unless they want to leave.

I have found this to be the case as well.

[Ruf]

What I do(& think) about it is, I explain the fight no matter what,that ppl want to hear it or not, its your right to type, then if they dont listen I repeat & if I get harassed I'm thinking launch a vote,.,, & if that doesn't go throught, then leave.I am one to think that its better to stand your ground than to actually "suggest" just to get told you shouldn't be mentoring when afterall you clearly are just trying to help... & in "most scenario" a mentor know.I cant express it better.

[KisaiTenshi]

Someone, please, explain to me why ANY advice is taken as some criminal offence. It doesn't matter what the advice is about. It could be basic rotations, could be stats, could be how to handle X mechanic properly, it doesn't matter. I've been ignored, lashed at, even harassed OUTSIDE THE DUNGEON over it.

1) People are offended by information that conflicts with their world view. It's called the backfire effect.

2) The game does not have "one true way" of doing things. Things change from patch to patch, and information in guides is often wrong by the next patch due to adjustments. This is because instead of building a guide about how to deal with the mechanics, the guide instead was rushed out to try and capitalize on ad revenue.

Several people on the forums are exceptionally rude about handing out advice that would be seen as insulting if not taken within the context of the game. Inside the game, players often will not give advice because it will be perceived as harassment if it's volunteered. Sarcasm does not transmit through text, at all. So your well meaning sarcastic "maybe X?" is the same as "you're not doing X, quit being bad."

Unless something a player was doing was counter-intuitive to getting through the dungeon, just don't volunteer information unless asked. Not every "Crown" knows everything, and not every "sprout" is actually a new player.

When I've been on an alt, I've had players condescendingly assume I don't know how to play the dungeon because the "bonus" message came up. Don't be that guy. All you need to do do is either:

a) "Would you like to know how to do this?"
or
b) Wait for a wipe and then volunteer the mechanics.

People do not like being spoiled, and do not like being told what to do. The era of "watch a guide/skip the cutscenes-watch it in the inn" rush abuse is over. Let players just play the game, and if you're in the notice network, you should be the first person to pipe up with "I'll run it with you" if you're just chatting and doing nothing. The Notice Network is not the global chatroom to ERP in.

[Ruf]

1) People are offended by information that conflicts with their world view. It's called the backfire effect.2) The game does not have "one true way" of doing things. Things change from patch to patch, and information in guides is often wrong by the next patch due to adjustments. This is because instead of building a guide about how to deal with the mechanics, the guide instead was rushed out to try and capitalize on ad revenue.

Several people on the forums are exceptionally rude about handing out advice that would be seen as insulting if not taken within the context of the game. Inside the game, players often will not give advice because it will be perceived as harassment if it's volunteered. Sarcasm does not transmit through text, at all. So your well meaning sarcastic "maybe X?" is the same as "you're not doing X, quit being bad."

Unless something a player was doing was counter-intuitive to getting through the dungeon, just don't volunteer information unless asked. Not every "Crown" knows everything, and not every "sprout" is actually a new player.

When I've been on an alt, I've had players condescendingly assume I don't know how to play the dungeon because the "bonus" message came up. Don't be that guy. All you need to do do is either:

a) "Would you like to know how to do this?"
or
b) Wait for a wipe and then volunteer the mechanics.

People do not like being spoiled, and do not like being told what to do. The era of "watch a guide/skip the cutscenes-watch it in the inn" rush abuse is over. Let players just play the game, and if you're in the notice network, you should be the first person to pipe up with "I'll run it with you" if you're just chatting and doing nothing. The Notice Network is not the global chatroom to ERP in.

I disagree with the era that you speak of, I dont read guides & I dont watch videos, communicating with chat before fights is a good thing & like it or not I wont hold myself from telling ppl & that even if you are a mandragora bud that isn't there for the first time, it doesn't matter to me, take explanation or complain, if we fail because you didn't listen then you can blame it on me all you want, I wont stay around to continue failing out of stubbornness & tunnel vision.

P.s: I do agree to that comment tho: Not every "Crown" knows everything I am wrong at times too, just like everyone, but I refuse to not communicate in fear of getting feedbacks

[DracotheDragon]

Normally when I do mentor roulette I have a macro saying I am from the roulette and if they need help to ask and to be patient since I am on PS4 when people want help they’ll ask a few times with the new trial people have responded to me with “we want to do it blind thank you” and I responded with “ok ”

It ain’t down to “not adapting” as a few have said granted there may be some out there who won’t adapt but from what I have seen it’s mainly players who want to learn by themselves or by there friends who are probs on a voice chat with them

[Jijifli]

1) People are offended by information that conflicts with their world view. It's called the backfire effect.

2) The game does not have "one true way" of doing things. Things change from patch to patch, and information in guides is often wrong by the next patch due to adjustments. This is because instead of building a guide about how to deal with the mechanics, the guide instead was rushed out to try and capitalize on ad revenue.

Several people on the forums are exceptionally rude about handing out advice that would be seen as insulting if not taken within the context of the game. Inside the game, players often will not give advice because it will be perceived as harassment if it's volunteered. Sarcasm does not transmit through text, at all. So your well meaning sarcastic "maybe X?" is the same as "you're not doing X, quit being bad."

Unless something a player was doing was counter-intuitive to getting through the dungeon, just don't volunteer information unless asked. Not every "Crown" knows everything, and not every "sprout" is actually a new player.

When I've been on an alt, I've had players condescendingly assume I don't know how to play the dungeon because the "bonus" message came up. Don't be that guy. All you need to do do is either:

a) "Would you like to know how to do this?"
or
b) Wait for a wipe and then volunteer the mechanics.

People do not like being spoiled, and do not like being told what to do. The era of "watch a guide/skip the cutscenes-watch it in the inn" rush abuse is over. Let players just play the game, and if you're in the notice network, you should be the first person to pipe up with "I'll run it with you" if you're just chatting and doing nothing. The Notice Network is not the global chatroom to ERP in.

Just mentioning on your point #2 there, my specific example of offering another method was because we already had 3 cases where everyone ran the wrong way, and it wasn't working. The method itself that was done DOES work, and it's the method that cleared the fight, but if the party is getting dizzy figuring out where N and S are, it could be better to just base it on which side she's on, so someone just has to run left or right. That's what caused the reaction.

And you are right. Not every crown knows everything, and not every sprout is new. But I wish my advice would at least be thought on before blowing up on me. And if you are able to prove me wrong, I invite you to do so, because then I can perform better for everyone else.

I think a more recent example is I only just learned a couple days ago how bad Skill Speed is for a MCH, and why they hate Arrow. So I know now to avoid arrowing them over someone else. I used to, if they were likely doing more damage, but more info assisted me, and them. You know, rather than calling me a bunch of slurs because I tried.

It ain’t down to “not adapting” as a few have said granted there may be some out there who won’t adapt but from what I have seen it’s mainly players who want to learn by themselves or by there friends who are probs on a voice chat with them

Being blunt here, then their friend isn't doing a good teaching job.

As a disclaimer, this rant is very specifically about capped content. Part of my posts are about things, like a DRG, refusing to use half of their abilities, in a level 70 situation. If their friend is trying to teach them in voice, it'd be probably quickly mentioned. And if they are trying to learn on their own, they're doing really good at not reading anything then.

[Crystal_Raven]

players who want to learn by themselves or by there friends who are probs on a voice chat with them

The problem with this is that the majority are incapable of learning by themselves. Very few are able to see a mechanic once and realize how to counter it in the same instant, these are the people that do not need help, however i'd say less than 5% of the player-base is able to adapt at such a level.

The rest need a helping hand, an explanation, a guide, something to point them in the right direction. The problem is that everyone thinks they're in that 5% that have an unnatural skill level, so they go in blind, they don't adapt, when offered advice, they get defensive, report for harassment, quit the raid and so on.

[Ruf]

Being blunt here, then their friend isn't doing a good teaching job.

THAT Ive ran in groups that didn't want to listen to advices before as the players were super arrogants about getting help & ppl like that team up against you(usually friends).So yea I took the 30minutes penalty, I dont need voted out at this point, I know where the exit is & lets just say that I somehow feel bad for the next person in line...

[KisaiTenshi]

The problem with this is that the majority are incapable of learning by themselves. Very few are able to see a mechanic once and realize how to counter it in the same instant, these are the people that do not need help, however i'd say less than 5% of the player-base is able to adapt at such a level.

The rest need a helping hand, an explanation, a guide, something to point them in the right direction. The problem is that everyone thinks they're in that 5% that have an unnatural skill level, so they go in blind, they don't adapt, when offered advice, they get defensive, report for harassment, quit the raid and so on.

A lesson everyone should have learned by the age of 12 is to not take over. When someone wants help, they want you to either walk them through it, STEP-BY-STEP, or they want you to do it first and then repeat your actions. Many kids just do "move over and let me do it for you" (thus implying the person is incapable of learning.) When adults do this to each other, it's taken as personal insult, and when the adult you do it to is far more experienced, they will also take it as encroachment on their authority.

Hence, allowing players that you have no experience with, to fail first, is better than trying to tell people to be a perfect PUG every time. Some people are embarrassed to fail and thus will take being spoiled over having to repeat things, as if it was bad to fail. If you're not having fun, then the game becomes less fun when strangers are telling you how to do your role, and have no tact when a mistake is being made.

[XiXiQ]

I don't think DF is the place to offer unsolicited advice on people's rotations and stats, and mentors are supposed to be helping sprouts, not dictating to other 70's. mentioning mechanics when the content is brand new is also overkill, people are still learning in their own way/time. If you simply must be the drill sargeant, form your own party and boss them around.