Another WHM chicken little sees the sky falling. The sky is an AST.

[Miste]

Also factor in the balance, arrow, spear cards your feeding to your 2 dps members. Possibly Enhanced cards.

You would have to take an average to do that properly and/or accept the fact that AST may be better with good cards, but will be worse if they don't...which means AST and WHM fluctuate back and forth for 1st place.

The cards are RNG so you can't be like "every pull you'll have X more damage because of cards."

Dat Sleeve Draw and get double Spire.

It's harder to calculate.

[Ghishlain]

Such an MP drain would be a hefty loss for the WHM without also attaching Thin Air, at which point you may as well add Earthen Star into the mix as well...

Yeah, I didn't state it out right but my thought process did indeed include Thin Air for the mix just to help MP sustain for WHM. Admittedly, I've drained MP on my WHM down to triple digits before and was still successfully able to finish healing a super pull pack just on the power of WHMs non-MP reliant healing tools. It shows you the amount of HPS power WHM has at it's disposal.

I will add Earthly Star to the mix since it is something I omitted and has been brought up by multiple posters. I do have to change the scenario a little because Earthly Star and Lightspeed share the same 10s countdown and since Earthly Star itself can be affected by CO, you'll want to either drop it before popping LS or won't be popped until after LS is resolved. The new scenario below adjusts the total time for the burst phase to 22.5s and includes "wind-up" preparation for both.

WHM @ -2s to 0s - Swiftcast + Thin Air
WHM @ 0s to 2.5s - Aero III + Assize + PoM = (50 + 40*7) + 300 = 630 Potency (equal potency afflicting each target)
WHM @ 2.5s to 19.3s - Holy x 7 = 200*7 = 1,400 potency (weaker as more targets are stack)
WHM @ 19.3s to 22.3s - Holy = 200 potency (weaker as more targets stack)

AST @ -2s to 0s - Earthly Star + Swiftcast
AST @ 0s to 2.5s - Gravity + Lightspeed = 200 potency (weaker as more targets stack)
AST @ 2.5s to 12.5 - Gravity x5 = 200*5 = 1,000 potency (weaker as more targets stack)
AST @ 12.5s to 14.9s - CO and pop Giant Dominance - 200 potency (equal potency afflicting each target)
AST @ 15.0s to 22.5s - Gravity x4 = 200*4 = 800 potency (weaker as more targets stack)

WHM totals
-630 potency that is unchanged by number of targets
-1,600 potency that is affected by the number of targets hit
= 630 + 1,600 = 2,230

AST totals
-200 potency that is unchanged by number of targets
-2,000 potency that is affected by the number of targets hit
= 200 + 1,800 = 2,200

WHM wins even with the inclusion of Earthly star. The gap is kinda negligible at a glance but take into account that 630 of WHM's potency is unaffected by multiple targets while only 200 of AST's damage is unaffected by multiple targets.

For perspective:




Spreadsheet of the calculations can be found here for error checking.

WHM does 1,240 more potency at 8 targets in this scenario (155 more potency/target).

I've also included the total potency potential if the AST decides to Balance or Enhanced Balance. I also didn't include any damage boost to Earthly Star because I'm not sure if Earthly Star gains the Balance effect (I should go test this later).

AST can card a true DPS but they're kinda at the mercy of how skilled and geared that person is in PuG environment and thus would also be difficult to calculate for. Also I believe both Holy and Gravity are the two highest potency GCD AoEs that are unrestricted by any prerequisites (i.e. Foul needs Polygot) and can be spammed (i.e. DRG will need to alternate Doom Spike and Sonic Thrust for maximum effect) so for absolute purposes, it would probably be best for the AST to Balance themselves for maximum effect when you look at the table above.

AST starts to win in damage with Balance only until the pack is 7 or larger. WHM can't keep up with Enhanced Balance AST at all. Due note that it'll be unlikely that AST will get an Balance or Enhanced Balance on every single pull due to the RNG nature of the cards.

When all tools are played in an AoE burst phase, in terms of reliability, WHM will win. If RNG is on AST's side, AST will win.

One factor you can't really math in is both WHM and SCH's ability to load up a lot of dot damage whilst the pull is still in progress, this typically gives me a ~50%+~25%+~15% split in multipack pulls on Holy/Aero III/Assize respectively with Aero bringing up the rest. I'll have to experiment with it, but I'm fairly confident that the only way I'd be competitive with AST on a large pull is to next level scumbag it up and actually start gravity spam a good couple of GCDs before the tank is planted.

This is true, and yes it would be hard to calculate. Any mob that AST can combust, WHM will be able to Aero II with the same DoT tick potency and have an initial potency to go with it.

Also, if AST pops Lightspeed early to be able to move and Gravity together while a pack is being situated, it will hurt their overall DPS later as they start working off a 3.0s GCD instead of 2.5s when Lightspeed expires sooner.

[NobleWinter]

Are all the Scholars out there considering how to manage their Rouse usage now that it won't affect Whispering Dawn. I have Macros to rework and strategies to rethink. Now Rouse is just to make Embrace stronger which makes Selene more viable-ish which is an interesting way to adjust the fairy balance. They can both use Fey Union but now that difference in healing potential is much less drastic once party buffs are considered. Fey Illumination will also only work on Succor, Adlo and Physick so the buff will actually be something you give to your cohealer instead of reserving for yourself. I think it really makes Scholar more friendly to heal with now that they will consider how their regen healer can get the most benefit from their buff. I like the Scholar changes but now it will mean changing my reflexes to suit the skill set.

[KDSilver]

It doesn't really make Selene "more viable-ish" since she still doesn't have what Eos has.
Being able to buff WD or not doesn't change that fact and the reason why you choose each fairy.
Your theory only works if your switching your fairy during the fight. In that case => prepull Selen Fey Wind / Eos => WD when needeed and keeping Rouse for a dedicated moment to switch to Selene.
But it's not common to see/do that because it still bit the GCD and mana

However, yes, Rouse will exclusively be used for Embrace now and be used on CD or specific moments when you want stronger embraces. (when not having a long Fey Union window ready)

[NobleWinter]

I typically use Selene for boss fights in dungeons and Eos for heavy wall to wall pulls. Switching fairies really only happens between fights mostly. I say Selene is more viable because the gap in healing potential between fairies did close slightly. I would still prefer to trade Silent Dusk or Fey Cleanse for a Fey "Medica" but SE seems dedicated to leaving those abilties in place.

[Fiorinol]

TBH, I'm thinking of playing tanks instead of healers. That's how tired I am with healer balance. I play WHM because I hate dealing with card RNG, and because I hate dealing with pets in this game. However, WHM seems to get the shaft at every turn, essentially making AST White Mage 2.0 at higher levels of play.

At least it's not as bad as at the end of HW, where there was simply no reason to bring WHM over an AST for anything. What we got this expansion though was somewhat disappointing, and I'm floored by how full my hotbars are when I switch to AST.

Yea, sure, WHM is viable, but it's getting tiresome to justify why you play it over AST to raid parties; they all want to get balances/arrows/spears because muh fflogs. If you're not willing to play AST, you "hurt" the raid. At this point, there's even less reason to justify it because AST got better yet again.

I also don't understand the WHM job gauge. Both AST and SCH's "gauges" have some sort of interesting gameplay aspect to them. Meanwhile all WHM's gauge accomplishes is give bad players who can't manage their mana a crutch, as you barely ever case Cure or Cure II unless you have no mana, and what lillies will do is lower the cooldown of abilities so you can use them more often.

[Kabzy]

-Snip-

As a SCH main, I would say that at least your gauge has something to it, even if it is underwhelming. Ours is just a stack which could have been an icon with roman numerals like AF is, and ASTs is literally just UI for cards.

Also, I think you may be in the minority with the whole expansion thing. 4.0 made WHM a lot more interesting, SCH got completely gutted. I'm not talking about the power of the jobs here, but gameplay wise SCH is still nowhere near as fun as it was in 3.x, where we actually had DoTs, our own mana regen, Virus and most importantly Cleric Stance. I won't comment on AST as I don't play it very often, but gameplay wise I only found WHM to be a lot more enjoyable out of the three in Stormblood.

[Tridus]

As a SCH main, I would say that at least your gauge has something to it, even if it is underwhelming. Ours is just a stack which could have been an icon with roman numerals like AF is, and ASTs is literally just UI for cards.

The lily gauge is a counter. It's a very aesthetically pleasing counter, but it's a counter. It counts from 0-3. The only difference between it and the Aetherflow gauge is how they look, in that they both count from 0-3. SCH also has the fairy gauge, which is effectively a counter from 0-10 (sure it goes to 100, but everything works in increments of 10).

On that end, the gauges aren't different. The difference is that the SCH one matters to how the job plays (managing Aetherflow is required to play the job well), and the WHM one is functionally irrelevant (managing lilies is largely pointless).

Also, I think you may be in the minority with the whole expansion thing. 4.0 made WHM a lot more interesting, SCH got completely gutted. I'm not talking about the power of the jobs here, but gameplay wise SCH is still nowhere near as fun as it was in 3.x, where we actually had DoTs, our own mana regen, Virus and most importantly Cleric Stance. I won't comment on AST as I don't play it very often, but gameplay wise I only found WHM to be a lot more enjoyable out of the three in Stormblood.

Cleric stance aside (because I like that change and it's really another discussion), this happened to everyone. WHM lost a lot of buttons as well, several of which became cross role and some others became basically not worth pressing (Fluid Aura is so niche now it's hard to remember its there). But yes, WHM is really fun. There's a button for everything and most of them feel pretty impactful when they land.

[Kabzy]

On that end, the gauges aren't different. The difference is that the SCH one matters to how the job plays (managing Aetherflow is required to play the job well), and the WHM one is functionally irrelevant (managing lilies is largely pointless).

I'll give you that one, you're right. Though you could also argue that there's not really any thought process going into building up the Faerie gauge, as you'll do it naturally regardless. All three are pretty useless, I guess WHMs is just more so because the end result is also not beneficial.

Cleric Stance though, it's the one thing I would really like back. Though I know with the direction they seem to be taking, it will never be the case. It's a shame because I completely understand that for jobs like WHM and AST it was probably just a hinderance, but SCH has tools that work with the old CS so well and it gave that much more depth to the job. It really is still a snoozefest compared to how it played in 3.x. :C

[Tridus]

I'll give you that one, you're right. Though you could also argue that there's not really any thought process going into building up the Faerie gauge, as you'll do it naturally regardless. All three are pretty useless, I guess WHMs is just more so because the end result is also not beneficial.

Yeah the faerie gauge is pretty much just "is this up high enough that it's worth using yet?". It's not especially exciting.

Cleric Stance though, it's the one thing I would really like back. Though I know with the direction they seem to be taking, it will never be the case. It's a shame because I completely understand that for jobs like WHM and AST it was probably just a hinderance, but SCH has tools that work with the old CS so well and it gave that much more depth to the job. It really is still a snoozefest compared to how it played in 3.x. :C

Cleric Stance was definitely a different thing for SCH. For WHM, especially when new to content, it had a habit of being a death sentence for other party members. It was "great everyone's full, I'll pop CS now! ... oh god, oh god click off click off!!"

It would work better as a job specific skill than a role one, I think.