Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.3

Originally Posted by Alleo

About 24 man raid

My problem of understanding is: They say that Dalmasca was already ruled nearly 1000 years long until it fell 30 years ago. If Dalmasca was only founded when Gog was destroyed then these people and thus Ivalice are over 1000 years old. Which is such a huge time that I have a hard time understanding how they would find any prove that those who fledfrom Gog over 1000 years (or even more then because Gog was already in ruins when these people found and used it as an lighthouse) are somehow connected to the Garleans that only 50 years ago came together and formed the nation we know. Why did they not improve their live until Garlemald was founded? Over 1000 years should be more than enough to built up empires again and again. If Dalmasca came later, why did those from Gog not simply built their places on the ground of Dalmasca or Rabanastre?

So for me it feels more like that they either coexisted for a longer time and Gog was simply outside their border and maybe they even had a conflict. Seeing how they themselved destroyed their city with their technic maybe Dalmasca did not like their advancement and thus did not want to take them in after the explosion?

I wonder if we learn at the end of the story that they have anchestors in Ivalice and that as a consequence they begin to understand that not every single technical item should be constructed otherwise it could be the downfall of a nation. I mean even Cid hinted at this by saying that this was the reasoning of the old emporer. That its not the weapon that kills but the one that wields it, and used that to create horrible stuff.

Response to the above

Dalmasca and Ivalice were not concurrent countries. Dalmasca is the same land that Ivalice was down to the Dalmascans building their capital over Ivalice's capital. Goug was concurrent with Ivalice. From the sound of it, Ivalice and Goug weren't enemies and were maybe even allies due to proximity.

Ivalice was a country so long ago that it's like Allag. Nobody really thought either Ivalice or Allag existed until ruins were found even though myths of both had been around for a long time. In the case of Ivalice, those ruins were discovered by us when we went under Rabanastre. Personally, I think Ivalice was founded before the 6th Astral Era.

Given that Dalmasca is in the same place Ivalice was, it was founded long after Goug fell. And Goug fell not necessarily because their own technology turned on them. The original Ramza went through the area and it was during that period that the middle portion of the tower exploded. Given that in the original Tactics Construct 8 was a boss... it's just as likely Ramza caused the explosion. A third party orchestrating the explosion is also a viable explanation (Ascian involvement anyone?).

While the Empire of Garlemald is only 50 years old, the Republic of Garlemald had been around for 600 years before it became the Empire. Whatever homeland the Garleans originally were from fell around 750 year ago. That's starting to get into the "nearly 1000 years" that Dalmasca has been around for. The fact that the Garleans still have stories about Ivalice as part of their culture (even if they think they are just myths) is also a pretty good indicator that Ivalice was important to the Garleans at one point.

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Response to the above

Dalmasca and Ivalice were not concurrent countries. Dalmasca is the same land that Ivalice was down to the Dalmascans building their capital over Ivalice's capital. Goug was concurrent with Ivalice. From the sound of it, Ivalice and Goug weren't enemies and were maybe even allies due to proximity.

Ivalice was a country so long ago that it's like Allag. Nobody really thought either Ivalice or Allag existed until ruins were found even though myths of both had been around for a long time. In the case of Ivalice, those ruins were discovered by us when we went under Rabanastre. Personally, I think Ivalice was founded before the 6th Astral Era.

Given that Dalmasca is in the same place Ivalice was, it was founded long after Goug fell. And Goug fell not necessarily because their own technology turned on them. The original Ramza went through the area and it was during that period that the middle portion of the tower exploded. Given that in the original Tactics Construct 8 was a boss... it's just as likely Ramza caused the explosion. A third party orchestrating the explosion is also a viable explanation (Ascian involvement anyone?).

While the Empire of Garlemald is only 50 years old, the Republic of Garlemald had been around for 600 years before it became the Empire. Whatever homeland the Garleans originally were from fell around 750 year ago. That's starting to get into the "nearly 1000 years" that Dalmasca has been around for. The fact that the Garleans still have stories about Ivalice as part of their culture (even if they think they are just myths) is also a pretty good indicator that Ivalice was important to the Garleans at one point.

About Ivalice

I'd say Ivalice being founded before the 6th Astral Era is a definite. One of the NPCs on the Prima Vista mentions Goug falling thousands of Summers ago. That already places Goug's fall at least in the 5th Astral Era if it was only 2000 years ago. Given the abundance of surviving ruins from other 5th AE civilizations like the Amdapori, I'm inclined to believe that Ivalice may be even older than that since the ruins have eroded to such obscurity. Given that Allag had a global empire going, I also doubt Ivalice would have been allowed to exist in the 3rd Astral Era. I'm willing to bet this is our first 4th Astral Era civilization.

I also suspect Dalmasca has been around since the 5th Astral Era. The B'nargan Dynasty started 1000 years ago, which would've been around year 500 of the 6th Astral Era (around the time Ishgard was founded, and pre-dating the three city states including Belah'dia), but Rabanastre was said to have already been an old city at the time, and the light house at Ridorana, which was built upon the foundation of Goug is old enough that the Dalmascans don't remember who built it.

MSQ thoughts

I'm really curious as to what they intend to do with Zenos.

As he put it, the only things he has left are his mind and soul, so he's not as much of a threat to us or anyone else as he was before. He could certainly make a mess of things by posing as a Resistance member, but doubt it would be done with any intent other then to get our attention, though that fact in itself is rather concerning since he might try to target someone important to us to try to rile us up...

And even if we "kill" him again, we're still going to need to find a way to get rid of him permanently if he can just casually body-hop after death like that Sahagin priest could.

about the raid 24 lore:

i feel the quest of the wine was more for foreshadowing about lea monde than really link the quest of the raid 24. what is interesting to note, is the presence of character like ashe and rasler in the story, while the last live letter the creator have said that the story was mostly a story around FFT, but this raid is more about FF12 than FFT only. a lot of reference was dropped here.
the real question is do all this lore added to the game will be used or ignored, because they talk of a lot of element from Dalmasca, like nalbina fortress, lea monde, rabanastre, etc....

because it's possible to create a dungeon from nalbina fortress or even use lea monde for create a deep dungeon or an area a la eureka (with a better system please)... honestly this raid is like a big teaser about an area of the world and we can wonder if it will be one of the new area we will visit in the next expansion or if we ever visit it.

this raid did added soo much to the game, the question is do they will use it or not.

All re. MSQ

Re. 'Zenos the Elezen'... while not particularly important, it's also possible he's either possessed a Garlean or *has* somewhat transformed his host into his old self. All we've actually seen is that he's wearing a hood with Elezen ear-flaps stitched into it, and the 'beak' of the griffin design hides whether he might have a visble third eye.

Originally Posted by Cilia

Shadowhunter:

How has he been killing Overlords? How did he get from Eorzea to the Burn? Unknown, but I suspect those questions will be answered in time. He may just be killing the hosts; they need to use their Dark Crystals to return to the interstitial world between dimensions; if they're stopped from using them as Thordan did that's not an out, and if there is a way to prevent the possession of a living person they're no more invincible than the black masks.

Originally Posted by Alleo

I think one could identify them thanks to the black crystal. Thancred was wearing one and they need it to bind them to their hosts. Even Minfilia seems to have such a crystal but a white one. (I hope I remember that correctly)

I'd have to find the cutscenes where it's explained, but I thought the crystals were for, as Alleo said, binding the Ascian to their host and not their power source for returning to the world between.

If I remember correctly, the crystal Minfilia had was just a replica.

Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

re: Shadowhunter

Is it possible he possess' the Heart of Sabik still? He could have took it from the remains of the Ultima Weapon, given that it is an ancient relic of unknown origin, perhaps it can hold Ascian souls, like the Eyes of the first brood

That's a really interesting idea! It seems a lot more plausible than "he's just that powerful", which seems out of scale with what we've seen so far.

Originally Posted by YianKutku

I'm imagining an alternate what-if scenario where Yotsuyu refused to give into her despair, so Asahi keeps following her everywhere and needling her, except he keeps getting interrupted by the big Garlean magitek transport also following them around carrying all these crates of crystals just in case.

Hahaha, I like that mental image! I could picture it as a comic. And the increasingly frustrated faces he'd be making as it failed every time.

Originally Posted by YianKutku

Technically Unukalhai. Of course, Unukalhai's mask looks nothing like the usual Ascian mask, so your point stands.

Is Unukalhai technically an Ascian though? I was of the impression that he's something like one, but not quite, and perhaps a unique case.

Originally Posted by YianKutku

I'm also curious why Gaius chose here and now to show himself as Shadowhunter. He must have had some way of obtaining information (especially since his spymaster Nero is now working with us), since he was obviously waiting in the middle of the Burn (a huge desolate region with nothing of interest and much danger) at exactly the same time and place as the airship with Alphinaud to get shot down and attacked by the Royal Guard. This was obviously planned, but how is the question.

I didn't get the impression that it was planned - Shadowhunter's part in it anyway. They could have been nearby (doing whatever it is that Ascian-hunters do in an aetherial wasteland) and seen the ship go down? Or even have a camp in the area. If I'm remembering the earlier lore reference right, I think there are tunnel-caves from giant sandworms? As pictured on the world map. I hope I'm not pulling this out of nowhere. Will try to find quotes. May edit this later.

In any case, he's completely unwilling to tell the others his actual identity, so it doesn't seem like he's "choosing" to show himself here, so much as he came to some people's rescue and it turns out that one is his ex-enemy.

(I wouldn't be at all surprised if Alphinaud works out that it's Gaius, sooner or later, and tactfully doesn't actually ask about it.)

On the other hand, the airship getting attacked in the first place is most likely part of Elidibus's scheme. Kill some inconvenient enemies and blame the attack on the Domans - shooting down a peaceful Garlean ship carrying ambassadors and the prisoners they had just released? What savages! This calls for retaliation!