In-depth idea for Rune Knight tank for 5.0

[Adarrack1252]

Actually Rune Fencer and Dark Knight from FFXI were quite different. FFXIV's DRK is more based in FFXI DRK (Or any DRK i guess) and being more of a black mage and warrior with healing strikes and such that are a kind of staple with that class.

[Tanathya]

Actually Rune Fencer and Dark Knight from FFXI were quite different. FFXIV's DRK is more based in FFXI DRK (Or any DRK i guess) and being more of a black mage and warrior with healing strikes and such that are a kind of staple with that class.

FFXIV's DRK isn't based off any DRK yet, especially not FFXI's, and not even Cecil. Stop spreading false information, I can show you, with extreme detail, why DRK has never been anything tanky. And yes, this includes Cecil dark knight, the character with the least magic defense in the entire game (barely has any), a negative increase in physical defense as he levels (Kain has more defense than Cecil by level 20) and not that great of an HP pool (Kain, again, has way more HP by level 20). Let's not start with FFXI's iteration. FFT's Gaffgarion was changed to Fell Knight, as its Dark Knight was a guest (ergo, an overpowered character) early in the game, and with the true Dark Knight introduction, the job had a passive skill which made its attack way stronger at the expense of its defense. The drain effect usually comes in the form of Blood equipment. What's a staple of the job is an HP-consuming attack, which we don't have because this one's a tank, unlike the others. Even Yoshida said something about "this being their vision of it for FFXIV". It's not like they got the jobs fine (SMN anyone?). Funny how you brought up the similarities with FFXI's DRK, showing how you don't know anything of it. Yes, it's been my main for 11+ years, including a well-earned relic for it, so I know what I'm talking about.

People need to accept the fact that, in FF, not every heavy armor user is a tank, the same way MNK's massive HP pool doesn't make it one, it's a means to survive due to its low defense the same way heavy armor was a means for DRK to survive while using Souleater/Darkside/Any HP-consuming skill.

Now, FFXIV's DRK is a tank, that's fine and dandy, but that's it.

To stay on topic, the idea's fine, I was just stating a point, but I would love to see RUN happen.

[Adarrack1252]

FFXIV's DRK isn't based off any DRK yet, especially not FFXI's, and not even Cecil. Stop spreading false information, I can show you, with extreme detail, why DRK has never been anything tanky.

I think you misunderstand what the term "Based on" means, it doesnt mean an exact copy. They wanted this one to be tank that is a change yes, but it is still the general same concept of a Dark magic using swordsman. While RUN from FFXI is more of just a straight up elemental tank, with access to all the Bar spells and the Harbor Rune mechanic, i just dont see any similarity to DRK from ffxiv other thank it is a tank. I appreciate you staying on topic however please do not correct me with incorrect statements. I would still say that both in concept and mechanics beyond not being a dps class FFXIV has a DRK based on most DRK from the games FFII until now even if it isnt the exact copy of anything as of yet. And yes i know the only mechanic it doesnt use, HP drain.

[Tanathya]

I think you misunderstand what the term "Based on" means, it doesnt mean an exact copy. They wanted this one to be tank that is a change yes, but it is still the general same concept of a Dark magic using swordsman. While RUN from FFXI is more of just a straight up elemental tank, with access to all the Bar spells and the Harbor Rune mechanic, i just dont see any similarity to DRK from ffxiv other thank it is a tank. I appreciate you staying on topic however please do not correct me with incorrect statements. I would still say that both in concept and mechanics beyond not being a dps class FFXIV has a DRK based on most DRK from the games FFII until now.

No it isn't, when the skill that makes it a DRK is gone missing. I mean, if you took Jump off DRG, would you still think it'd be based on dragoon? Rhetorical question.

Anyway, DRK is based on RUN as in it used to be the magical tank in FFXIV. RUN could work differently if elements were a thing, but since they're not, they'd just have an edge against magical attacks. And that's what this DRK does. DRK's magic is just an appearance, they could've made it to pop runes with the exact same effect they've got now and it would be a RUN.

[Adarrack1252]

Anyway, DRK is based on RUN as in it used to be the magical tank in FFXIV. RUN could work differently if elements were a thing, but since they're not, they'd just have an edge against magical attacks. And that's what this DRK does.

One mechanic does not a basis make. Souleater is still their go to move, and while it has always been the exact opposite of its current state that does not change that this class being a magical tank is not it being based on RUN.
For example using your own, if you change jump to fly it is still a DRG

[Tanathya]

One mechanic does not a basis make. Souleater is still their go to move, and while it has always been the exact opposite of its current state that does not change that this class being a magical tank is not it being based on RUN

Will redirect you to my rhetorical question about DRG.
I'm not saying FFXIV's DRK is based on FFXI's RUN, I'm just saying they are essentially the same, a magical tank. That's it, and look at how well it ended up being.

About your example on changing the name from Jump to Fly, the effect would be the same, and even then, it'd be a mistake to change its name. But I digress, does DRK have an HP-consuming attack? Again, a rhetorical question.

Anyway, the argument is over for me here; like I said, I like the concept and I would love to see RUN here.

[Adarrack1252]

FFXIV's DRK is esentially FFXI's RUN

Sorry to tell you but that is exactly what you said. And being a magical tank is also a PLD but yet they are their own thing?

[Tanathya]

Sorry to tell you but that is exactly what you said. And being a magical tank is also a PLD but yet they are their own thing?

Jesus, a magical tank in the sense that its niche skill and role is to be strong against magic. No, I didn't say it was based off FFXI's RUN because I don't know what they based it on as a fact, I just said they are essentially the same because they fulfill the exact same role.

I am saying, for the third friggin time, that I like the concept, your idea, and I would love to see RUN back, but gave a very valid opinion as to what to expect.

[Derio]

If the rabanastre story prediction is true, the next jobs are arithmetician, templar, and geomancer.

[Tanathya]

If the rabanastre story prediction is true, the next jobs are arithmetician, templar, and geomancer.

They're just honorable mentions, not predictions.