All Greed on Alliance loot

[Cidel]

But it seems I'm in the minority of people who value smoother runs more than bragging rights for loot. Feelsbadman.

Right, because everyone running their alt jobs are inherently bad at them and everybody playing their main never messes up and creates flawless runs? You can try to cherry-pick situations where people were simply bad at their role and blame it on them simply not playing their main job, but it also boils down to laziness/lack of effort. Your argument practically assumes everyone has absolutely no clue how to play their alt jobs which begs the question as to what they're even doing in level 70 casual content as said job/role. If somebody can't play their alt well enough to acceptably function in 24-man alliances, then I can't think of any other content (where knowing a basic rotation and role responsibility) they could perform well enough to even utilize gear from relevant Alliance raids.

I literally just came out of a terrible Rabanastre. I was forced to go in as a healer, since it's the job I wanted gear for. I'm not that good at healing

Okay, so enlighten me as to what you needed that gear for to force you to queue up as healer if you're not comfortable/good at healing? Certainly you intended to use a healer in some other content, even if by your admission, you're not that good at it? Clearly you want to be a healer somewhere if you wanted gear for it.

Tanks, on the other end, absolutly didn't do jack. They weren't even tanking the bosses. The bosses roamed free, killing everyone with tank busters and stuff... It took at least a minute or two before someone (not the tanks) decided to even pull.

That's a bad player/trolling problem, not an "alt problem." Tanks not actually tanking bosses defeats the purpose of being an actual tank at max-level casual content. Those tanks sound like they'd be terrible/disruptive no matter what content they decided to queue up for. That's not really an argument to discourage people from playing as alts in alliance raids; that's an argument to force them to learn their job before queuing up anything at level 70. BTW, do you know without a reasonable doubt none of those tanks weren't actually playing their main? Lots of people running 60+ content with a... "tenuous" understanding of their main; as the gigantic "Tales from the Duty Finder" thread shows.

[Tint]

Yeah, it's totally fine if your two "alt-jobs healers" are derping around and let everyone die because they are terrible at playing that job in 24-raids simply because they want to call dibs on shiny. I mean, not only healers, but the other 23 other players with you.

24-raids are wipe fests, and they should remain like that. Up to 24 people playing sub-optimaly just because of loot. Without that, these raids would lose their flavor. Their salty flavor.

i don't have any problems with that. first the wipes i see are most often mechanic wipes and people who can't dodge that eating dirt. and second this change is applied to ALL 24 man raids. you know, the raids wich are used mostly for leveling alt classes through roulette, played by people who have no experience with that class.
and that's another point, especially for healers: 24 man raids are a good training ground in the difficulty curve between faceroll dungeons and extreme primals / savage raids.

But it seems I'm in the minority of people who value smoother runs more than bragging rights for loot. Feelsbadman.

i'll rather have a few wipes with a chance for loot than dozens of smooth runs wich are just wasting my time. also that these random people are playing any better on their mainclass needs a proof.

[Rokke]

But it seems I'm in the minority of people who value smoother runs more than bragging rights for loot. Feelsbadman.

If you aren't a good healer, why run it through content too difficult for you? If you can't heal through Rabanastre I doubt Rabanastre gear will make you any better a healer lol

[BillyKaplan]

I just don't want to die and/or wipe because some players are forced to play a job they barely know how to play for a pair of boots.

You realize Savage and Ultimates are wipe fests until everyone learns the mechanics and clear the fight, right? I mean, those are people who bring in their A game jobs and gear and still aren't necessarily going to clear with their static over the course of a week. Your problem sounds more like it's with the wipe-fests in 24-player raids rather than anything that might come from this change. Because wipe-fests, especially on the first couple of weeks, can and will happen without any single person performing inadequately. That's just how these raids go, in part because of the sheer amount of people in there. Coordination is hard enough within an 8-player party, but here we have 3 times it.
Then, in a couple of weeks, between people learning mechanics and overgearing through other means, it doesn't even matter how badly your hypothetical healer is, so why are you so upset over this?

[MoroMurasaki]

Edit: I literally just came out of a terrible Rabanastre. I was forced to go in as a healer, since it's the job I wanted gear for. I'm not that good at healing and probably could've prevented way more deaths than I did and healed/DPS more efficently. Tanks, on the other end, absolutly didn't do jack. They weren't even tanking the bosses. The bosses roamed free, killing everyone with tank busters and stuff... It took at least a minute or two before someone (not the tanks) decided to even pull.
If I could've joined as a tank, I definitly would have. That's my main and I wouldn't have let that happen. But I couldn't. Because of loot.

But it seems I'm in the minority of people who value smoother runs more than bragging rights for loot. Feelsbadman.

Bragging rites - I do not think this term means what you think it means, just saying.

Despite my reservations in doing so I am going to take your Rabanastre story as an entirely factual recount of real events. If we do that let's break down why it does not offer much support for your stance on all greed loot.

First - you are the only person there confirmed to not be on your main in this entire instance. Most people running Rab right now who have a specific goal item in mind are stockpiling coins for 4.3 tome gear upgrade items, not the (relayively worthless) i330 gear it offers. I can say as an experienced healer in Rab that if that run was as bad as you claim there was likely not much I could have done in your shoes to fix things so you being less competent as a healer is neither here nor there.

Second - bad players are bad more or less across the board. I don't mean that there is no skill discrepancy between a main and alt job but I think that gap is being greatly exaggerated by people in support of this change. The inverse can be said of good players. I'm not assigning some arbitrary skill assessment either, I simply mean the difference between a player who reads their tooltips and perhaps a guide on their class versus those who jump in and do completely illogical things like Ice Mages, songless BRDs, SMNs using Titan Egi, melee who always stand in front of the boss... you get the picture.

Third - objectively speaking 24man raids are not difficult enough to require main jobs for clears or even smooth clears.

I get that this can be a touchy subject and I will preface that I enjoy 24man content a ton and have used it as both a training ground and a fun time waster many times.

That aside, difficulty in this context is quantified by how much prior knowledge the general playerbase needs in order to clear an instance. As someone who did Rabanastre immediately upon release (huge ffxii/fft nerd, was so excited) I can say we needed no prior knowledge and had none. We wiped once to Mateus and twice to Hashmal, cleared the rest with zero issue. I even joined a PF specifically for people who wanted to run it blind, no spoilers.

This ability for 24 random people to walk in and clear a raid with very little effort sets it apart from something like EX or Savage where the finer points of job mastery can start to factor in, especially at lower ilvl. It is, in overall difficulty, closer to a dungeon run than a Savage fight. A very fun dungeon run for sure! But it ultimately asks very little of it's participants.

As an aside I am personally hoping that the difficulty jump in Ridoranna is larger than I'm giving it credit for. There is, however slim, the chance that it will be so far removed from Rabanastre that this All Greed option will make sense because it makes use of more player skill. At the end of the day we only have our experiences to go by and mine with 24man content on release is limited to Rab. I think this loot change is stupid and pointless. I would love for SE to proove me wrong.

[Indefiinable]

I’m totally ok with this. Let’s be honest raid gear is relevant for all of 5 minuets for your main class. Makes total sense to greed only as most people only use raid gear for subclasses

[Enla]

I’m totally ok with this. Let’s be honest raid gear is relevant for all of 5 minuets for your main class. Makes total sense to greed only as most people only use raid gear for subclasses

And the people who are coming back for the patch who need upgrades? Not everyone is actually geared up to snuff right now, especially during the mid patch lulls. We'll never see concrete evidence either way unless SE releases their own poll on the matter, but in my experience the vast majority of people I know are using the Alliance Raids for gear on their main classes. Either due to not having the time to grind for mendacity gear, the interest dribbled away so they fell behind the curve, or any number of other reasons - though the middle one tends to be the most prevalent in my experience. Gearing for an alt job is among the last things I hear people needing it for when I'm asked to queue for it to help a friend.

Yet even if you're gearing an alt job, why would you want the potential of losing out on gear you queue'd to get? The one week lock out isn't going to stop people from rolling for items they might not necessarily need as much, or at all.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Honestly I'll only be rolling for my two primary jobs, and only going in on healer for the first week.

Once I get a piece for one of my two main classes for the week, I'm refusing to run this content. If I have a ton of crappy dps schmucks rolling on gear they can't use, just because they have a healer they don't use that they want to gear up but couldn't take the time to actually do the work of healing a 24man raid for it - then I'm just refusing to roll a healer through this content. Not like it'll matter if everyone wants to go dps anyway, right? All Greed, right?

Oh right. Queue times.

All Greed is stupid and only rewards lazy dps who can't be bothered to learn how to heal or tank properly but want all the loot for them, regardless. And I'm honestly hoping enough tanks and healers say "screw this" and either don't do Ridorana past week 1, or all roll on their dps classes since not like it makes a difference anyway. Maybe if the queue times for Ridorana start plummeting after initial release, SE will realize no one likes this change and put it back the way it was.

[347SPECTRE]

Maybe if the queue times for Ridorana start skyrocketing after initial release, SE will realize no one likes this change and put it back the way it was.

Plummeting would mean tanks and healers are actually queuing.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Plummeting would mean tanks and healers are actually queuing.

I use plummeting to mean "queue times are getting so bad that it's almost impossible to get into the run at all", but hey - we all need unnecessary English lessons in the morning.

Though yeah - my point still stands. I feel the only way SE will realize what a huge mistake this change is (since apparently this thread hasn't made it clear already), is if dps start crying about horrible queue times for Ridorana not even a month after its release. Thus, I'd highly suggest to any career tanks and healers to just flat out stop rolling a tank or healer through that content after week 1. We all have the same chance to get gear regardless - so obviously we can safely roll the low-pressure classes without anything bad happening. /s