Another WHM chicken little sees the sky falling. The sky is an AST.

[GunksFoy]

Yep. Rouse only affects spells. This also means that fey illumination and mantra don't interact with it either too. I'll admit I thought that it made eos even better til I saw the ability change. So now, Rouse will only affect embrace until it probably will get change in a later patch.

I think the cast time reduction of aspected helios is just a buff for noct sect because succor cast time is 2 seconds while aspected helios was 3.

That's possible, but it is ultimately a buff in Dirunal too. Small as it may be.

[Tridus]

WD might actually be a stealth nerf. The change from a spell to ability will mean that it won’t be usable with rouse afaik?

Yes. For a newbie SCH, WD is getting buffed since the baseline is going up. For SCHs that would always use it with Rouse (because why wouldn't you?), this is effectively a nerf, although not having a cast time is nice.

Medica II is 3 seconds as well. I actually don't understand that change considering they didn't change Medica II and they're effectively the same spell.

Succor isn't 3s and Aspected Helios is also that.

Overall it looks like these were fairly well thought out changes. I don't expect the sky to fall on WHM.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Medica II is 3 seconds as well. I actually don't understand that change considering they didn't change Medica II and they're effectively the same spell.

Jeez, I thought all this time that they were both 2.5 seconds.
Still, while it sounds unfair on paper, this is most likely for the Nocturnal side of Aspected Helios as people have already said.

[technole]

Whispering Dawn going to an ability from a spell, now without Rouse is about a 140 potency nerf. That is without the additional things such as Warrior Defiance, Convo, Fey Illum, Mantra.

Rouse will probably be best now for outside of Fey Union windows.

[miraidensetsu]

Well... That is it. Time to level an SCH or an AST if I want to raid.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Miste]

I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea but there are a few issues with your post. Putting aside the fact your example is an anecdotal sample size of 1 I'm more that willing to concede that it could be indicative of something bigger. With that said you make a few assumptions that aren't necessarily true.
1) A 50% whm and 50% ast parse don't mean the ast and whm are of the same skill level. I suspect there's quite a gap actually (this would warrant a dedicated post)
2) pdps and rdps for AST are two distinct mechanics. You assume the players skill expresses equally in both fields.
3) Logs from sub 90% players aren't a viable source of information. The lack of consistency in skill mean the interpretation of the data really can't be used in a class balancing scenario.

I also want to point out that RNG has been less of an issue since the changes to spear. And part of the AST rdps grows with the raid dps, so it's normal to not see good return on cards if half your group are pulling grays.

Well I decided to play WHM on my main this week since it is more geared than my alt and get you some more data, so here are the results.

Took my best AST parses against my new WHM parses which are close in percentile to my AST bests (I'm decently skilled on WHM, so it is quite close level of skill for both AST and WHM and since both played by me overall same skill ceiling)

These images are showing the All Parses percentile not the ranked.
My logs are public so feel free to go and look yourself.
Parses from O5S-O7S for my AST all have most DPS jobs at blue-purple so they would make decent use of the cards.
If you want to recalculate with the rdps calculator to see the results for yourself simply type "ffxiv raid dps calculator" in google search and use the herokuapp link. I am simply not direct linking it because of forum rules.


Phantom Train

AST pDPS


AST rDPS total


WHM pDPS


WHM Item Level: 370
AST Item Level: 370
Percentile difference: AST is 2% higher
DPS difference: 9.1 DPS
Cards: 4 AoE Balance & 1 AoE Spear
Higher contributor: AST by 9.1 DPS

Conclusion: Basically equal. AST is 2 percentile higher so it makes sense they ended up with a bit more rDPS total. 9.1 DPS is a negligible difference.


Demon Chadarnook

AST pDPS


AST rDPS total


WHM pDPS


WHM Item Level: 370
AST Item Level: 366 (older parse)
Percentile difference: WHM is 9% higher
DPS difference: 158.4
Cards: 7 AoE Balances
Higher contributor: WHM by 158.4 DPS

Conclusion: Basically equal if you take into account item level and percentile differences. 158.4 is a nice bit higher, but WHM did better percentile by 9 more percent and item level was a tiny bit higher, so it also makes sense AST lost out despite the whopping 7 AoE Balances that were obtained.


Guardian

AST pDPS


AST rDPS total


WHM pDPS


WHM Item Level: 370
AST Item Level: 370
Percentile difference: AST is 10% higher
DPS difference: 53.4
Cards: 4-5 AoE Balances (seems I missed 2 DPS one time) & 2 Single Target Balances
Higher contributor: AST by 53.4 DPS

Conclusion: Basically equal. AST was 10 percentile higher so it makes sense it did a bit more contribution.


So I just did this quick to give you some more data, take from it what you will, but to me it seems like AST and WHM can contribute around the same amount right now.

Sometimes AST may pull ahead of WHM cause nice RNG, but sometimes WHM can pull ahead of AST if the AST gets bad RNG and then other times they are quite close to being equal. 100% balance is impossible so you can't expect them to be 100% equal at all times and especially since RNG fluctuates. Upcoming changes may change things, but we'll have to retest and see how much of a difference it is.

[Tridus]

Well... That is it. Time to level an SCH or an AST if I want to raid.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You think the entire raid scene is going to blacklist WHM because AST has an easier time fitting in DPS and card drawing at the same time?

I just... I'm not seeing it.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Well... That is it. Time to level an SCH or an AST if I want to raid.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm assuming this is sarcasm? Because if not...

[miraidensetsu]

You think the entire raid scene is going to blacklist WHM because AST has an easier time fitting in DPS and card drawing at the same time?

I just... I'm not seeing it.

Not to the point of every PF/static locking out WHM (specially while proging). But I feel that those buffs leaves WHM in a pretty bad situation.

[Ghishlain]

WD might actually be a stealth nerf. The change from a spell to ability will mean that it won’t be usable with rouse afaik?

Yep, it's a stealth nerf at the highest tiers of skill - approximately a 14.3% potency nerf (79 potency post patch versus 92 potency currently when combined with Rouse).

Just means Rouse will not be used in conjunction with Whisper Dawn. It'll also mean SCH pet HPS will be less spike-orientated since you got more tools to use in that one minute window to help moderate the pet HPS.

I do also agree that I like the instant cast change too.

Not to the point of every PF/static locking out WHM (specially while proging). But I feel that those buffs leaves WHM in a pretty bad situation.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel this way?