Red Mages need some love

[Singularity]

You see more Red Mages because blm are the ones raiding.
There is literally nothing Red Mage brings to a raid if you are to choose between it or smn and blm

It brings fun to those that enjoy playing it. People often speak in these threads like almost every raid group is composed of bleeding-edge omniclass speed runners who dispassionately choose their job based on efficiency alone. In fact only very few groups operate this way, you don't have to go very far down even the fastest clears on FFlogs (within the top 20, top 10 even in some cases) before you find jobs that would be considered less efficient than others in the same role.

Also, on topic, I'd prefer to see Manafication become "your next three enchanted weaponskills cost no mana". That would fix all of its "not a good time for this" issues, particularly alignment with Trick Attack during the opener.

[Jonnycbad]

I doubt they will overhaul RDM. Perhaps adjust some potencies/Mana, or modify the bonus granted by Embolden. They're not going to fundamentally change how Dual Cast works. Just make it so it's roughly on par with SMN, damage wise. RDM has instant cast Raises and Cures and can cast while moving most of the time between GCDs, so they can't and won't put it on par with BLM, which is an immobile turret style glass cannon, and SMN gets most of its DPS from instant cast and DoT spells.

[EllieShadeflare]

I doubt they will overhaul RDM. Perhaps adjust some potencies/Mana, or modify the bonus granted by Embolden. They're not going to fundamentally change how Dual Cast works. Just make it so it's roughly on par with SMN, damage wise. RDM has instant cast Raises and Cures and can cast while moving most of the time between GCDs, so they can't and won't put it on par with BLM, which is an immobile turret style glass cannon, and SMN gets most of its DPS from instant cast and DoT spells.

Trouble is, the devs have outright stated that its their intention to keep Red Mage somewhat weak due to its multi rez, so the only way to buff it is to nerf or remove Rez. I don't get why people put so much value on the rez outside of prog or lower tier content, since the penalties for dying and being rezzed outweigh the benefits of rezzing.

[Zerathor]

Maybe make embolden apply to magic damage as well? I don't think rdm should carry much of any personal damage, but perhaps greater contribution as a support type job. The only issue is its quick rez abilities have to weigh into the job or it'd just be a bit unbalanced. Even if it's not useful at the farming phase, it's still immeasurably powerful in learning phase, and that should be accounted for in its ballance.

I feel like if you'd take away their multi rez power and buffed their damage, it'd just become a different flavor of smn and lose its unique role. And of course ONE of them will still be ahead of the other if that change happened, and it'd be back at square one.

[Maero]

It brings fun to those that enjoy playing it. People often speak in these threads like almost every raid group is composed of bleeding-edge omniclass speed runners who dispassionately choose their job based on efficiency alone. In fact only very few groups operate this way, you don't have to go very far down even the fastest clears on FFlogs (within the top 20, top 10 even in some cases) before you find jobs that would be considered less efficient than others in the same role.

Our group had 3 Red Mages (myself included) and i had to go as Nin, the other 2 are now smn and blm in our group. You are not understanding the point that i made that Red Mage does not bring utility like that of say smn and Bard and is even behind on damage. This is the whole premise of the thread really in which many of us want changes to the job.

Also Red Mage is now the only job that has not seen any changes, this far into the expansion really SE?

[Maero]

@ Jonnycbad, well none of us are expecting to be on par with blm because that would just be wrong, but at least on par with say Bard, lol

[Jonnycbad]

I'm not saying make RDM as strong as SMN, but either on par or slightly weaker. As it stands RDM is heavily below casters. I get that we can Raise, but it's a heavy hit to our MP (maybe double the MP requirement? to allow for more potency on other skills?)

[EllieShadeflare]

Maybe make embolden apply to magic damage as well? I don't think rdm should carry much of any personal damage, but perhaps greater contribution as a support type job. The only issue is its quick rez abilities have to weigh into the job or it'd just be a bit unbalanced. Even if it's not useful at the farming phase, it's still immeasurably powerful in learning phase, and that should be accounted for in its ballance.

I feel like if you'd take away their multi rez power and buffed their damage, it'd just become a different flavor of smn and lose its unique role. And of course ONE of them will still be ahead of the other if that change happened, and it'd be back at square one.

Part of why I suggested we let them have a flavor of multi rez by making Dualcast similar to Lightspeed.

[Dualgunner]

I doubt they will overhaul RDM. Perhaps adjust some potencies/Mana, or modify the bonus granted by Embolden. They're not going to fundamentally change how Dual Cast works. Just make it so it's roughly on par with SMN, damage wise. RDM has instant cast Raises and Cures and can cast while moving most of the time between GCDs, so they can't and won't put it on par with BLM, which is an immobile turret style glass cannon, and SMN gets most of its DPS from instant cast and DoT spells.

Just gotta correct this because its a common misconception: dualcast still costs a gcd. Its not like RDM is popping 570 potency every 2.5s.

I feel like if you'd take away their multi rez power and buffed their damage, it'd just become a different flavor of smn and lose its unique role. And of course ONE of them will still be ahead of the other if that change happened, and it'd be back at square one.

This is a fair assessment, but practically speaking it's already that. (Relatively) cheap and unobtrusive mid-combat raise flavor, or (relatively) unhindered by Swift multi-rez flavor. Even if we disagree there, can we agree that in a game where we're constantly looking for how we can do even less healing and more dps among the healing role, a DPS whose identity is specialization in healing support is a poor identity to have?

[LordMaitreya]

the devs have outright stated that its their intention to keep Red Mage somewhat weak due to its multi rez,

Please provide a link where the developers allegedly said this.