Another WHM chicken little sees the sky falling. The sky is an AST.

[MoroMurasaki]

I have had a crap day on a personal level. It's been one of the worst in recent memory honestly. I'm sure that's coloring all of my opinions right now and I'm trying to keep that in mind as I look over these patch notes.

Sadly I still feel a lot of apprehension.

I speak, of course, about the future of WHM in a universe that seems to be heavily leaning away from it.

"But Moro," people say, "WHM has the highest healing thoroughput and that's something AST specifically was lacking!"

Okay, I hear that. I'm thinking about that. The problem I'm having is seeing how these adjustments, as they are phrased, don't unbalance the healers overall. At the end of the day the entire game is not o8s and Ultimate, if you want to make a point that would only apply to those fights I have zero time for it. Please move along. Moving on.

SCH adjustments are the definition of vague. This scares me because it could mean almost anything. Even a small buff to absolutely anything on SCH is entirely uncalled for, they are sitting at the top of the pyramid right now and while I get that one of the three will always be number one there is zero reason to make that gap any larger. I expect this to be a Selene buff and if it's another viable rDPS increase on SCH I am beyond confused.

AST is getting a buff to A. Helios - I've heard people speculate that it's just the range increasing from 15y. If this is the case apart from further homogenization between A. Helios and Medica II I see no real problem.

If it's a potency increase though? Yes, gonna start having some issues there depending specifically on what is buffed. With the plethora of regens an AST has access to and the fact that they have the ability to extend them beyond their natural duration I feel like in the HoT department AST and WHM fly fairly close together right now.

I would spare some consideration for what buffed Noct A. Helios shields might do to SCH but I can't see AST bringing enough to the table for someone to swap a SCH for a WHM, especially if their "pet usability" buff is anything substantial.

How about actual healing potency though?

Medica II - 200 potency base heal plus 10 ticks @ 50 potency for a total of 700 potency. 2,040 mp @ 70.

A. Helios - 200 potency base heal plus 10 ticks @ 40 potency for a total of 600 potency, plus Diurnal Sect's 10% healing magic potency meaning 660 potency overall. 1,800 mp. 70.

A WHM technically comes out on top, though AST does bring a slightly stronger frontloaded heal. Virtually any healing potency increase on this spell will make it heal more effectively than Medica II. WHMs are paying for that potency too - 240 mp for 40 healing potency, I don't need to be a theorycrafter to understand that's an awful return on your MP.

Now I'm not crazy, I understand that 2k mp to a WHM is not the same as 1.8k mp to an AST (at least not right now) because WHM has godly mana regen and AST... does not. That's why you didn't see a complaint thread about this from me before now.

But then we get to the buff that has me almost torn about wanting to sit down and play AST it's so good - Lightspeed. 25% mp cost reduction being buffed to 50%, still essentially instant cast GCDs for 10 seconds on a 150 second CD... and there's no damage penalty anymore?! So we've increased the usability of Lightspeed (can you say Gravity spam on trash in dungeons? I can!) while helping alleviate some of that pesky MP inequality between WHM and AST.

It seems like with these buffs there isn't much on the AST wishlist remaining - the clipping of card actions maybe? Oh, nope, got that too! Attack spell cast time reduction will probably mean Malefic III (since Combust is already instant and I don't understand why they would make Gravity cast faster) which will mean less clipped GCDs when executing card actions.

I don't want to be so paranoid as to think the devs are giving AST instant-cast Malefic III even though that could be what this means but it will likely be cut down to something around a 1.5 second base. I know this is speculation but if you have an alternative that makes more sense based on the things we've seen let me know.

So there we have it. An overview of the upcoming healer changes in 4.3.

I'm going to be honest I've spoken with friends both ingame and on discord and most of them, while kind, have dismissed my concerns about this. I have some great friends and normally I would be inclined to trust their advice without question but as someone who has watched SE continuously sh*t on WHM for a while now I don't want the end of SB to be a clone of the end of HW where WHM is undeniably the least useful of the 3 healers.

I feel it already now - the pressure to play AST or SCH. I want to bring the most that I can to my party or group and right now the only thing WHM has (big HPS) is not something required in the vast majority of content. Unless I want to try to find a group to prog Ultimate or o8s there is really no reason for me to not jump ship here and that bothers me.

One last little thing and I'll shut up and go to bed - almost every AST main I've spoken to has defended these changes allowing AST to encroach more on WHM healing thoroughput and MP management with the idea that AST needs this to be able to heal God Kefka effectively right now.

I've then asked a few if them if they would trade out Balance from a flat damage buff to a DH buff. All of them have declined, some people have said "that would kill AST".

So wait - people on AST want to be able to have the thoroughput to heal like a WHM but still keep their rDPS buffs... the same people who say that since WHM has such strong healing thoroughput it doesn't need an rDPS buff?

I know these changes do not give an AST the same MP management as WHM. I know WHM still has more pDPS. I'm not stupid. To me the only way these buffs to AST can be equalled out is by similarly harming their utility or by buffing WHM with some rDPS of their own. AST gets some more WHM (mp management/pDPS/healing potency) in it, WHM needs some AST (rDPS) in return.

So yes. Please, if you've made it through that, prove to me that I'm wrong. I look forward to looking like a complete idiot because I overlooked something basic. I don't think it happened but god do I hope it has.

Nini all o/

edit! - I just want to say before everything is blown out of proportion as it always is on the OF up until these changes were announced I was fine with healers as they were. The pipedream of an rDPS ability on WHM was something I recognized for what it was - unrealistic. I'm not some crazy #deleteWHM apocalypse crier, this post is born from a genuine concern and fear for my main class in the face of buffs happening to it's counterparts when I think things finally died down.

Oh, and sleep deprivation. And stress. Those helped too.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

It's always been this way, and it always will be so long as WHM keeps it's identity as a pure healer. It's just way too razor thin and flimsy of a idea to build on. A healer that can heal slightly more than the rest, yet brings absolutely nothing else of value. This along with SE's idea that all healers should be able to equally heal content just makes WHM come off as redundant.

That's why whenever I hear of AST or SCH buffs, I get nervous, because WHM is already barely relevant past the progres phase and pugs. And just like with DRK, SE seems adamant of their claim that they're perfectly ok and need nothing else as they continue to add buffs after buffs to the other two healers.

SCH is already, once again, the best healer bar none, and AST is looking to tighten up the small holes it had, MP and clipping. Meanwhile what about WHMs enmity gain? What about WHMs lack of any utility whatsoever? This is just going down the same path 3.3 did at this rate.

[Sylvain]

, I get nervous, because WHM is already barely relevant past the progres phase and pugs.
.

So the only moment where it actually matters basically? I mean, I understand many people enjoy optimisation and clearing the boss a few seconds faster. I used to be hardcore progression in WoW Tbc to Cata, so I know what optimisation of the very last little dps% is
But I've personally got my experience from a guilde which valued progression above personnal achievement / raid achievement. In otherwords, we didn't care how good the first kill was as long as it was dead and we'd use anything to reach that kill before. And once dead we wouldn't change much if anything EVEN if there were potentially more optimal solution as gear and experience would carry us through the fight anyway.

I don't say that's the case for most people but I don't think most people would rather wipe more just so that when they eventually get the kill it's 10-15sec faster than with a WHM. At least I wouldn't, as long as the boss dies, I couldn't care less if it dies in 5,30min or 5,48min. (This is also why I hate progression group going for risky cheesy strat just so they can "gain 3sec" of dps even tho it'll actually cost tons of wipe)


Same for pugs, AST buff are great when people can stay alive. On some fight I've given up using my AST when doing pugs, there's no point, people just keep dying, I rather go for my WHM and push the fight a bit forward.

WHM keep complaining that they bring nothing yet they have more uploaded parse and are on more first kills than AST.

@Moro
Regarding the buff, I would be extremely surprised if Helios get potency buff. Adjustment perhaps (like, stronger base less hots or vice-verca). I also believe it's only the range thing or maybe even a slight mana cost reduction.

As for Malefic I'm sure it's only for the card clipping. Altough I'd like to see its potency buffed a little because honestly it does bugger all and it was a pain to level up to 70 using wet blue sparks. (They're very pretty tho)

I main AST and I personally do not want to encroach on healing, I want to encroach on buff and utility.
I rolled AST because the selling points was the cards. Now personally, after looking at some log showing DPS contribution from players (so, rdps by buffs and stuff), I'm bitter to see that SCH often brings more rdps to the table than AST even with plenty of AoE balance.

So I understand your feeling regarding AST healing being buffed. As an AST I don't really wish for that. I think my healing is fine and I actually expect that my weaker heal should be patched by the other healer. What I do not enjoy is seeing SCH bringing more rdps and heal and everything than both WHM and AST.

Perhaps WHM pure healing identity would be in a better shape if healers in general were less OP. If running oom was a serious risk anytime people take remotely too much damage, if healer couldn't top a raid with 2-3 AoE heals. If overall fight would require more heal and healer had less mana I'm sure your identity wouldn't suffer.
The current issue is that healers have too much free time in raid.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much honestly
Unless the new ultimate require somehow "little" heal and lot of dps, (more than baha fight comparatively), my guess is that we'll see WHM SCH again.

[EaMett]

First things first. WHM in raiding is all about dat B...cure III and sustained healing. Encroaching on medica II isn't that big of a deal.
It's giving AST even more dps that is troubling.

The card clipping being addressed is a good thing IMO, yes it does give AST a little more dps but the (assumed) gained fluidity is well worth it. The MP buff to lightspeed touches on the current balance however. For the sake of consistency lets say that it wasn't fair that only ast had to really worry about piety and move on.
The fact that lightspeed now no longer reduces dps however..... I get that it's a nice gameplay addition for dungeon content and gravity spam a la thin air holy spam.. but this is just such a significant change for raiding.

At this point it just looks like they took a WHM, removed it's Cure III and bene. Combined thin air with presence of mind = lightspeed, gave it way better raid dps and voila: AST.

Kinda rough.

[Kabzy]

While I do agree that AST will obviously gain more pDPS from these changes, I do think the Lightspeed change is being a little overrated. It will make some fights a bit easier, as you just need to smash one button and then run like a headless chicken, but generally in raids I have found that one Swiftcast and Broil II has been enough for me to position myself to safety and then continue casting. I can't think of any raids where you need to be on the move for that long, and where you wouldn't be able to cast in between moving.

WHM is popular because of its' straightforward playstyle (which I believe is a much more important factor than people give it credit for), as well as it being a powerhouse in progression. The AST changes are not messing with any of that.

[KDSilver]

Of course, someone had to make that thread...

[KaivaC]

Of course, someone had to make that thread...

It is a valid concern, though.

[MoroMurasaki]

Oh look! Startling, I failed to go to bed. Back to the salt mines!

This is just going down the same path 3.3 did at this rate.

Exactly my fear.

Regarding the buff, I would be extremely surprised if Helios get potency buff.

That would be lovely. Everything I've read has specifically used the word 'buff' which is what lead me down that road.

The current issue is that healers have too much free time in raid

I disagree here. I like the way healing works in this game due in part to it's uniqueness. Of course if healers had to spend more time healing the healer best at making hp go up wins but that isn't what I want and it isn't the direction I anticipate SE going. Plus it doesn't fix the problem - in a world of dps optimization giving healers less time to dps just means their rDPS (yet another category that goes SCH>AST>WHM) matters that much more.

WHM keep complaining that they bring nothing yet they have more uploaded parse and are on more first kills than AST.

Well that's the thing isn't it - first kills. People don't often bring AST to prog because they're going for survival rather than optimization. At the end of Stormblood tough when we're all in PF parse running Savage and farming totems for mounts and weapons you can bet unless something changes WHM will be left in the dust again.

First things first. WHM in raiding is all about dat B...cure III and sustained healing. Encroaching on medica II isn't that big of a deal.

I don't think this is the case and it definitely isn't if AST gets more powerful regens on A. Helios.

Even with the measly 40 potency difference between Medica II and A. Helios now I had one person tell me today that "WHM can rely on it's regens to heal in a way that AST can't" which is all the more apparently false when you look at tree breakdown of M2 abd AH side by side.

Cure III alone can not save WHM when most Savage pugs can't even be bothered to stack enough for everyone to get hit by it. Maybe in a static, maybe in Kefka - neither of those things are on my horizon and I'm not alone in that. The rest of the game still exists.

At this point it just looks like they took a WHM, removed it's Cure III and bene. Combined thin air with presence of mind = lightspeed, gave it way better raid dps and voila: AST.

Kinda rough.

It's like you summerized my whole post right there xD Thank you!

While I do agree that AST will obviously gain more pDPS from these changes, I do think the Lightspeed change is being a little overrated. It will make some fights a bit easier, as you just need to smash one button and then run like a headless chicken, but generally in raids I have found that one Swiftcast and Broil II has been enough for me to position myself to safety and then continue casting. I can't think of any raids where you need to be on the move for that long, and where you wouldn't be able to cast in between moving.

WHM is popular because of its' straightforward playstyle (which I believe is a much more important factor than people give it credit for), as well as it being a powerhouse in progression. The AST changes are not messing with any of that.

@Lightspeed changes - I think perhaps you're misunderstanding. The biggest boon to AST from Lightspeed updates as far as raiding goes is the 25% cost reduction being buffed to 50% meaning spells during Lightspeed now cost half mana. The fact that they're instant is nice but they always have been. (Technically not instant, they just have 2.5 secs off their cast times, but for everything but Ascend and Gravity that means instant)

WHM currently has pDPS on AST (which AST counters with the much-preferred rDPS,plus they will gain pDPS from these changes overall) and then healing thoroughput/mp efficency which will both be dramatically helped by the ligjtspeed change and likely by the A. Helios change.

Of course, someone had to make that thread...

Of course, someone had to make this useless reply...

[Alien_Gamer]

I have had a crap day on a personal level. It's been one of the worst in recent memory honestly. I'm sure that's coloring all of my opinions right now and I'm trying to keep that in mind as I look over these patch notes.

/hugs

I hope tomorrow is a better day.

[Miste]

snip

I'm sorry you had such a bad day dahling ;-; I'll try to get a picture of my kitty for you sometime today okay!


As for topic...

Well to be completely honest with you, if any of that refers to me, I dismissed your concerns because the changes aren't even live yet.

Don't know the exact details, sometimes translations get things wrong, it may not be finalized.

You're over stressing yourself too soon when we don't even know exactly what is changing and how much those changes will do mathematically. On paper something might look amazing, but you gotta test it in a live environment as well.

It is just how I am but I dislike paranoia about things like this so I am very likely to hand wave anything like this until it is fully released and people test how big of a difference it is. It wasn't anything mean spirited towards you at all I hope you understand that I am just too passive mostly and while I have opinions they aren't super fiery ones. You sometimes assume I am more passionate and heated about things than I am in reality.

As for if you meant me for defending these upcoming changes. I think you misunderstood. I didn't actually defend these specific changes, as I haven't even seen them yet in-game so I can't have a full opinion on them. I don't judge anything 100% until full patch notes are out and I can test it in-game.

I just defended the fact that ASTs participation in savage going by logs is almost half of what WHM/SCH have ( this gap is pretty large and it was even worse a few weeks ago with WHM/SCH sitting at 40-43k and AST at 20k; I've been keeping an eye on it).

Also as someone who progged on AST (and also did the fights on a WHM alt as well) I can see some of ASTs main issues which may be why their participation in savage is so low this tier. MP was a big issue for me personally when trying to prog o8s. I tried progging on both AST and WHM simultaneously and WHM simply overpowers with their MP. I can raise up to like 3-4 people and not bat an eye. AST on the other hand? If I raise even just one person and maybe have to heal a few people with Benefic IIs due to non-death dealing mistakes it would sometimes cause an unrecoverable MP shortage and end in a very early MP-wipe.

It alleviated some as you prog since experience and less mistakes does make a difference, but in the end I personally feel the MP gap was too wide after playing both. Not saying AST needs comparable MP management to WHM...just the gap might be a bit too much.

Other than that AST has serious clipping issues due to too many oGCDs and nothing to weave. It makes the job clunky. CU is also clunky...too much clunky.....clunk.

I think the lightspeed change is trying to address both of these issues at once, MP and partly the clunkiness of having so many oGCDs and not enough weaving with instant spells. It will result in some pDPS increase imo, but I have no idea how much until people test it.

Just remember LS is a long cooldown, so it isn't like AST will be like a pinball boing boing boing all over the arena for the entire fight just blasting orbital death beams from their Ephemeris...funny but not plausible xD

The attack spell faster casting speed doesn't really change anything except making it possible to weave oGCDs easier. Even if Malefic III casted 1s faster you still have your main GCD going so it doesn't actually increase how many Malefic III's you could cast in any set timeframe, since the GCD stops you from casting it again immediately. That is what I assume that means, could be wrong, but it is my educated guess. This will not result in much of/if any pDPS increase if it is like I explained here.

As a quick example from my AST's Malefic III:

Cast: 2.36s
Recast: 2.36s

Even if we reduce the Cast by 1s like so
Cast: 1.36s
Recast: 2.36s

The recast will still be 2.36s. So you'll cast Malefic III and it takes 1.36s to cast but then you still have to wait 1s more to cast it again therefore you aren't really casting the damage any faster, but during that 1s for example you could pull a card with Draw and attempt to weave.

As for healing? It's a bit hard to manage ES sometimes, but it comes with the territory, just wish God Kefka's big hits were split up just a tiny bit more so it wasn't so tight on usage, but it's whatever. I'm quite sure the Asp. Helios buff is either for Noct only or its just the yalm range being adjusted. I could end up wrong, but I don't see the need to buff DiAST Asp. Helios.

This is just my opinions on what I felt AST had issues with and also why I think they are maybe doing these changes. As for if the changes are good, or bad, or if they may hurt healer balance? No opinion on that yet since I want to see the full patch notes and see it go live.