Another WHM chicken little sees the sky falling. The sky is an AST.

[KDSilver]

Of course, someone had to make that thread...

[KaivaC]

Of course, someone had to make that thread...

It is a valid concern, though.

[KDSilver]

It is a valid concern, though.

It's not.
The day AST will have the same toolkit as WHM, or insane potencies increase, maybe it will.
But those small adjustements won't.

WHM crying over AST always are people who don't know how to properly play WHM.

[KaivaC]

It's not.
The day AST will have the same toolkit as WHM, or insane potencies increase, maybe it will.
But those small adjustements won't.

WHM crying over AST always are people who don't know how to properly play WHM.

That's a bit judgmental, ain't it? Mayhaps there is a valid worry that the devs have absolutely no idea how to balance properly, and in their attempts to fix the 'balance, they may end up making WHMs less desirable in content where something like that matters? WHMs have been known as pure healers, but with some of these changes, its apparent that ASTs are coming closer to being WHMs themselves with buffs. Upset the balance too much and it'll last for a patch cycle - the devs don't often introduce hotfixes to jobs in between patches. So yes, it is a valid concern. Sure, the adjustments may be a tad bit too small now, but it could end up with WHMs being left behind - potentially.

[EaMett]

It's not.
The day AST will have the same toolkit as WHM, or insane potencies increase, maybe it will.
But those small adjustements won't.

WHM crying over AST always are people who don't know how to properly play WHM.

lol. Sweeping generalization and incorrect statement.
Diurnal AST and WHM have almost the exact same toolkit and play very similarly (from a healing pov)

assize > earth star (honestly I'd pick earth star anytime)
medica > helios
medica2 > aspected helios
regen > aspected benefic
cure > benefica
cure II > benefic II
tetra > essential dignity
holy > gravity
presence of mind + thin air > lightspeed now
aero II > combust II
Stone > malefic

WHM has a couple of things like bene or cure III that stand out but at what cost? An entire card system that can add up to 1000 rdps. Not to mention that AST also has other skills to replace those two.

So, I'm sorry, but even though as an AST you may organize your heals around earth star (since it's so OP when done right), and even though there are some subtle differences in potencies and duration/cooldowns, or making good use of synastry. The kits are so similar it's a joke at this point. AST is basically a WHM for more experienced players.

The only thing WHM has going for itself is it's comfort level. That extra padding that can allow for reversals of situations. This really shouldn't be overlooked but lets not fool ourselves in saying AST and WHM don't have the same toolkit. WHM at this point is mostly an AST for beginners. And I believe that's exactly how SE sees it and the reason why they've been so adamant about upholding the "pure healer" image in a game that was designed not to require a "pure healer" (aka: letting all content be accessible to all healers)

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's not.
The day AST will have the same toolkit as WHM, or insane potencies increase, maybe it will.
But those small adjustements won't.

WHM crying over AST always are people who don't know how to properly play WHM.

Or they experienced the absolute dominance of AST in 3.4, which became so wide spread, PFs were actively locking healer spots to AST/SCH. Plenty of very good WHMs were forced to change because everyone wanted AST. That being said, even if all these purposed changes did occur, AST is still not slipping back into 3.4 god status, but WHM mains have every reason to be frustrated; perhaps even apprehensive, especially when you consider their gimmick for Stormblood remains the biggest joke of the expansion. Instead of addressing that... AST is the focus. Sure, it needed some adjustments, however WHMs have been down this road before. They spent a year being told "You don't have Balance."

[MoroMurasaki]

/hugs

I hope tomorrow is a better day.

Thank you so much! People being nice on the OF - a novel idea! /hugs

It's not.
The day AST will have the same toolkit as WHM, or insane potencies increase, maybe it will.
But those small adjustements won't.

WHM crying over AST always are people who don't know how to properly play WHM.

Wonder why he's so salty o.O

Also apparently he can accurately judge the skill of players purely by their complaints about the game - what an amazing talent! Boy, I wish I was as cool as you, going aroung making sweeping generalizations and not worrying about how rude, inconsiderate or ill-informed I make myself look.

Must be nice.

Anyway, that's all the time I have now. I hope you are feeling better now and let's try to maintain a level head until we get to see the changes officially on paper.

Thank you! After a whopping two and a half hours of sleep I do. A bit at least. I still stand by all of my opinions but I will acquiesce that I don't need to worry as much until it's in the patch notes.

Sure, it needed some adjustments, however WHMs have been down this road before. They spent a year being told "You don't have Balance."

I couldn't have said it better myself. Also, I didnt.

[MoroMurasaki]

Oh look! Startling, I failed to go to bed. Back to the salt mines!

This is just going down the same path 3.3 did at this rate.

Exactly my fear.

Regarding the buff, I would be extremely surprised if Helios get potency buff.

That would be lovely. Everything I've read has specifically used the word 'buff' which is what lead me down that road.

The current issue is that healers have too much free time in raid

I disagree here. I like the way healing works in this game due in part to it's uniqueness. Of course if healers had to spend more time healing the healer best at making hp go up wins but that isn't what I want and it isn't the direction I anticipate SE going. Plus it doesn't fix the problem - in a world of dps optimization giving healers less time to dps just means their rDPS (yet another category that goes SCH>AST>WHM) matters that much more.

WHM keep complaining that they bring nothing yet they have more uploaded parse and are on more first kills than AST.

Well that's the thing isn't it - first kills. People don't often bring AST to prog because they're going for survival rather than optimization. At the end of Stormblood tough when we're all in PF parse running Savage and farming totems for mounts and weapons you can bet unless something changes WHM will be left in the dust again.

First things first. WHM in raiding is all about dat B...cure III and sustained healing. Encroaching on medica II isn't that big of a deal.

I don't think this is the case and it definitely isn't if AST gets more powerful regens on A. Helios.

Even with the measly 40 potency difference between Medica II and A. Helios now I had one person tell me today that "WHM can rely on it's regens to heal in a way that AST can't" which is all the more apparently false when you look at tree breakdown of M2 abd AH side by side.

Cure III alone can not save WHM when most Savage pugs can't even be bothered to stack enough for everyone to get hit by it. Maybe in a static, maybe in Kefka - neither of those things are on my horizon and I'm not alone in that. The rest of the game still exists.

At this point it just looks like they took a WHM, removed it's Cure III and bene. Combined thin air with presence of mind = lightspeed, gave it way better raid dps and voila: AST.

Kinda rough.

It's like you summerized my whole post right there xD Thank you!

While I do agree that AST will obviously gain more pDPS from these changes, I do think the Lightspeed change is being a little overrated. It will make some fights a bit easier, as you just need to smash one button and then run like a headless chicken, but generally in raids I have found that one Swiftcast and Broil II has been enough for me to position myself to safety and then continue casting. I can't think of any raids where you need to be on the move for that long, and where you wouldn't be able to cast in between moving.

WHM is popular because of its' straightforward playstyle (which I believe is a much more important factor than people give it credit for), as well as it being a powerhouse in progression. The AST changes are not messing with any of that.

@Lightspeed changes - I think perhaps you're misunderstanding. The biggest boon to AST from Lightspeed updates as far as raiding goes is the 25% cost reduction being buffed to 50% meaning spells during Lightspeed now cost half mana. The fact that they're instant is nice but they always have been. (Technically not instant, they just have 2.5 secs off their cast times, but for everything but Ascend and Gravity that means instant)

WHM currently has pDPS on AST (which AST counters with the much-preferred rDPS,plus they will gain pDPS from these changes overall) and then healing thoroughput/mp efficency which will both be dramatically helped by the ligjtspeed change and likely by the A. Helios change.

Of course, someone had to make that thread...

Of course, someone had to make this useless reply...

[Sylvain]

I disagree here. I like the way healing works in this game due in part to it's uniqueness. Of course if healers had to spend more time healing the healer best at making hp go up wins but that isn't what I want and it isn't the direction I anticipate SE going. Plus it doesn't fix the problem - in a world of dps optimization giving healers less time to dps just means their rDPS (yet another category that goes SCH>AST>WHM) matters that much more.

Well on this one I suppose it's more a matter of personal opinion.
What I find confusing though, is that Y.P had to remind players, more than once, that healer were only there to heal and raid weren't designed with any healer dps contribution in mind. (I doubt this is true for the last 2 tier of savage and Ultimate but that's not the point) and yet every raid seems to promote this healing dps design. I mean, when you look on forum you see 10 post about how to optimise your dps for 1 post of how to handle some healing situation.

I personally would like more healing time. I rolled a healer to heal. Not to spend 90% of my time spamming MaleficIII or StoneIV

Well that's the thing isn't it - first kills. People don't often bring AST to prog because they're going for survival rather than optimization. At the end of Stormblood tough when we're all in PF parse running Savage and farming totems for mounts and weapons you can bet unless something changes WHM will be left in the dust again.

I'd like to correct your assessment, "A fraction of the fraction able to clear Savage on PF" doing parse run will care

I'm sorry but let's be real there, balancing a whole job so that not even 1% can have more e-peen online doesn't sound right.

I don't think having all job perfectly balanced for parse run is among SE top priority. (nor should it be)

It's like you summerized my whole post right there xD Thank you!
..

This is actually something I find utterly disapointing about AST and WHM
Healing wise, they're very similar. Like when a WHM friend told me "I don't know how to heal as an AST" I was just like "...... I mean, spare a few spells you're missing and grounded star, they pretty much heal the same exact way."

I really hope we'll get more unique spells like Grounded Star next xpac, because WHM and AST are definitely too similar when it comes to healing.