Dark Knight under review: Feedback to the Developers and Community Team

[Megguido]

Living Dead skill is not good. It is the "IN CASE OF FIRE BREAK THE CRYSTAL" Sort of scenario. It completely draws the healer's attention, it requires to set up a macro for the sake of letting the healer know "Hey I am going to die unless you pick up the healing", and it is not something you can use strategically like the Paladin HG. You only use it when things are looking grim, and by that point chances are ... you are going to die 3/5 times if the healer is not able to catch up. It is just not a useful proactive skills, it is just reactive for when shit hit the fan compared to the other tanks that can use their level 50 Skills in a more versatile manner for a wide variety of scenarios, and if you are tanking properly and the healer is doing its job, the level 50 skill will sit there like a pretty decoration rarely being used. Whoever is saying Living Dead is fine... he or she is not playing a Dark Knight I am pretty sure.

What makes me sad is that people who don't even understand the job want it to change. Sure, Living Dead and Dark Mind are near useless if all the content you run is dungeons and FATEs. But they are great tools in harder content (in that case, Dark Mind is what makes DRK so sturdy alongside TBN).

First, Living Dead is far from a "IN CASE OF FIRE" button. It's a tool that you can plan to use, in the same way you plan to use Hallowed Ground at a precise moment. More than PLD's invuln, you want to plan your Living Dead, so your healer knows when he has to heal you back to full HP. Of course, if you use that in the middle of nowhere, the healer won't be ready to heal you. The HP requirement on Walking Dead doesn't need to disappear, but it would be easier if it were smaller (like, 50% of max HP needs to be healed). If you use Living Dead only when shit hits the fan, then you are using it wrong.

[Deceptus]

What makes me sad is that people who don't even understand the job want it to change. Sure, Living Dead and Dark Mind are near useless if all the content you run is dungeons and FATEs. But they are great tools in harder content (in that case, Dark Mind is what makes DRK so sturdy alongside TBN).

That just shows a poorly designed class when some abilities are useless in certain situations. Sole Survivor: Decent in dungeons, worthless in boss fights.

[WhyAmIHere]

That just shows a poorly designed class when some abilities are useless in certain situations. Sole Survivor: Decent in dungeons, worthless in boss fights.

Not always.

That's really the biggest gripe with DRK that people just keep overthinking and warping: compared to WAR/PLD, there's just too many "if X is true then Y, otherwise Z" situations.
SS is good if the boss has adds. WD is good if your healer knows how to handle it. TBN is great if it breaks, else it's just good. DM is good if there's a lot of magic damage going out, else it's meh, and so on for other skills.

WAR/PLD have a few, sure. TW is good if the boss has a knockback, else it's just meh. SiO is great if you burn a few of the secondary/tertiary CD's with it, else it's still good. The problem's just the overall "completeness" in the classes and how the skills work with the rest of the class skills, when paired in a given situation, and even in isolation.

[whiskeybravo]

Upon further reflection, is it necessarily a bad thing if a job is more like a "raid spec" kind of job? Even NIN is in a similar spot, for dungeons would you rather have an AoE vulnerability like Hypercharge or still prefer the single target TA? Back to tanks, would you rather have Raw for dungeons or Dark Mind? Everything is "viable" of course, but perhaps there should be a bigger distinction between "raid spec" and "casual" jobs.

I don't know, maybe not. Just a thought.

[Izsha]

Upon further reflection, is it necessarily a bad thing if a job is more like a "raid spec" kind of job? Even NIN is in a similar spot, for dungeons would you rather have an AoE vulnerability like Hypercharge or still prefer the single target TA? Back to tanks, would you rather have Raw for dungeons or Dark Mind? Everything is "viable" of course, but perhaps there should be a bigger distinction between "raid spec" and "casual" jobs.

I don't know, maybe not. Just a thought.

I think of it more as situational actions instead of a 'raid spec'. Not all abilities are good/useful all the time. If there are never more than 2 mobs (say, O7s) then fire II is pretty dang useless. Might as well delete it from your hotbar. If there are no knockbacks, might as well delete tempered will. No adds? Delete sole survivor. No downtime in a fight? Why does meditate exist? Mob immune to silence? Can we delete arm of the destroyer yet?

Not every skill is useful, let alone optimal at all times. Some skills are more general, some are incredibly niche and specific and everything in between. Just because a skill isn't good in dungeons (dark mind for example) doesn't make it 'bad', nor something that is bad in raids and awesome in dungeons 'good' (sole survivor for example). Both of these skills have a function and a purpose. Just like Arm of the destroyer, tempered will, and every AOE skill have a purpose, even if you don't use it at all for certain fights.

This gets complicated when you try to balance a job though. Are we balancing for lv 50? Leveling up 1-70? Balance at 70 in dungeons? Balance at 70 in raids? Balance for PVP? Its quite impossible to make every job equally good at everything without making them clones. Someone is better at fighting multiple mobs, someone is better leveling from 1-70. Someone is better at dungeons. Or raids.

SE 'seems' to have organized most of the balance around lv 70 high end raids. That is were skills like living dead are fantastic, even though its more likely to kill you than help in a pug DF dungeon. That's why Dark mind is as it is. Its a strong skill in raids. That's why Ninja has shadewalker. The focus for SE seems to be on coordinated raid situations. And I cant really disagree with that. Does a healer ever see a drk in dungeon and insta bail because living dead is annoying? Nope. Were 30 levels over when a dungeon is released. No one cares because you don't need living dead to beat a dungeon you can sleepwalk through. No one will kick you from a Eureka party because your a drk instead of pld. But you will get denied spots in raids if your job isn't 'good enough/meta enough' this patch. As much as it might suck if you just do lower end content, it doesn't actually stop you from doing the content. Balance in lower content is a bit of a misnomer. Its about quality of life "I can Hallowed the big pull and smile, but on drk you have to use CDs and accept heals, but ultimately still win regardless." Balance in high end situations is about ability to play and complete content. The latter is far more impactful and why most games balance from the top down and some stuff gets wonky the farther down you go, but that doesn't draw a line in the sand you cant pass, just a QOL 'nice to have'.

[Kabooa]

Upon further reflection, is it necessarily a bad thing if a job is more like a "raid spec" kind of job? Even NIN is in a similar spot, for dungeons would you rather have an AoE vulnerability like Hypercharge or still prefer the single target TA? Back to tanks, would you rather have Raw for dungeons or Dark Mind? Everything is "viable" of course, but perhaps there should be a bigger distinction between "raid spec" and "casual" jobs.

I don't know, maybe not. Just a thought.

In this scenario, I'd rather they use the cross role system for more robust options.

Party having issues surviving?

Slot the trait "I am your opponent", reducing damage the party takes by 5% but increasing yours by 10%

Need to do more damage?

Slot the Berserker trait, increasing damage dealt by 15% but disabling Defensive actions outside Tank stance.

[Sylvain]

That just shows a poorly designed class when some abilities are useless in certain situations. Sole Survivor: Decent in dungeons, worthless in boss fights.

We clearly don't have the same definition of the word "decent" XD
This skill is trash end of the story.

If AT LEAST it were on a short CD and at low level to help DRK level up.
Not even

[shao32]

They dont go to rework the job, what a surprise, mostly potency changes, i swear if those changes dont make drk have a niche im done with SE favoritism.

[Otorinth]

They dont go to rework the job, what a surprise, mostly potency changes, i swear if those chances dont make drk have a niche im done with SE favoritism.

The niche is going to be "Does more damage than Paladin, but less than Warrior."

[Dualgunner]

The niche is going to be "Does more damage than Paladin, but less than Warrior."

That's not a niche though, that's the opposite of a niche. That middle of the road idea is going to help nothing; people will still take PLD/WAR because both excel in their areas whereas DRK will only ever be middling in them.