BRD/MCH having their own piercing?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Play a caster for one raid tier and maybe you'll start to comprehend a slight bit just how badly brd/mch have monopolized the ranged slots. From damage synergy, extra party defensives, and refresh being 10x more useful than mana shift. It's been busted since 3.3, and there hasn't been so much as a glimpse of it being fixed since. The only time it's even considered better to bring any caster is if a raise is needed for the group.

If you're going to come out swinging, perhaps you should research beforehand. Looking at the top ten speed runs of each fight Summoner appears...

Four times in Phantom Train; three other groups run triple melee
Once in Demon Chadarnok; seven of the remaining groups run triple melee
Nine times in Guardian
Eight times in Kefka
Five times in God Kefka

Not only does this not represent a monopoly but Machinist has been benched almost entirely in favor Summoner or triple melee. In the event piercing is removed, Machinist will straight up die without some tweaks. It's decidedly unpopular and provides nowhere near enough to compete with Summoner now, let alone without piercing.

[Zerathor]

If you're going to come out swinging, perhaps you should research beforehand. Looking at the top ten speed runs of each fight Summoner appears...

Four times in Phantom Train; three other groups run triple melee
Once in Demon Chadarnok; seven of the remaining groups run triple melee
Nine times in Guardian
Eight times in Kefka
Five times in God Kefka

Not only does this not represent a monopoly but Machinist has been benched almost entirely in favor Summoner or triple melee. In the event piercing is removed, Machinist will straight up die without some tweaks. It's decidedly unpopular and provides nowhere near enough to compete with Summoner now, let alone without piercing.

I'm so sorry. It must be so painful to only have mch in 5/10 top god kefka speed runs. Such a tragedy. This needs to be fixed immediately, why shouldn't they be 10/10? Come on squeenix, think of the poor gun bards. Why should a ranged physical ever have to think of needing to compete with a.... caster.... gross. Casters can't be meta right?

[Dualgunner]

I'm so sorry. It must be so painful to only have mch in 5/10 top god kefka speed runs. Such a tragedy. This needs to be fixed immediately, why shouldn't they be 10/10? Come on squeenix, think of the poor gun bards. Why should a ranged physical ever have to think of needing to compete with a.... caster.... gross. Casters can't be meta right?

Her point: MCH will not survive in not only meta (to cover myself, nothing needs defending in any meta) but general play without some sort of buff, as even now they're virtually worthless without BRD and DRG. There is no situation where you would take a MCH over a BRD if you had to choose between them.
Also her point: Summoner is in the top 10 speed rankings 27/50 times. Trip Melee is 10/50, leaving double Phys Ranged as 13/50. In other words, people are more likely to take SMN for speedkills than MCH. Which means your point "The only time it's considered better to bring a caster is if you need a raise" is incorrect.
Is it also worth mentioning Summoner has over twice as many uploaded parses as Machinist despite double phys ranged meta? 24,304 to MCH's 11,640. And that's WITH being the meta, mind. Unless MCH got some tuning after a piercing removal, it would be even less popular than it is now, and it's already the least popular job if upload numbers are anything to go by.

You attacked: MCH must be meta 100% of the time no matter what

inb4 continuation of sarcastic "boohoo" for MCH despite SMN absolutely crushing it despite the technical meta.

Good job, you missed.

[Sunako]

There is no situation where you would take a MCH over a BRD if you had to choose between them.

That is not true. MCH was really good for ultimate because of dismantle. For ultimate BRD was not any more popular than MCH. Current savage is just that faceroll ppl not care about anything else than dps.

[Dualgunner]

That is not true. MCH was really good for ultimate because of dismantle. For ultimate BRD was not any more popular than MCH. Current savage is just that faceroll ppl not care about anything else than dps.

Okay, one place where MCH is good for one skill, but if I'm not reading FFLogs wrong...
There are currently 37 bards to 13 machinists cleared through.

EDIT: Oh and also looking at these upload numbers, SMN is at 40, matched by DRG and only beaten by NIN.

[Sunako]

Okay, one place where MCH is good for one skill, but if I'm not reading FFLogs wrong...
There are currently 37 bards to 13 machinists cleared through.

EDIT: Oh and also looking at these upload numbers, SMN is at 40, matched by DRG and only beaten by NIN.

You are looking for last 2 weeks, I mean once ultimate was relevant content first 2 months.

EDIT: If you look even at this point 194 mch have ultimate clears and 231 bards. Difference is not really that huge.

[Dualgunner]

You are looking for last 2 weeks, I mean once ultimate was relevant content first 2 months.

EDIT: If you look even at this point 194 mch have ultimate clears and 231 bards. Difference is not really that huge.

How would I look at the entire thing? Call me a blind bat, I can't find that utility.

Also a question: how many of those MCH uploads were there *in place* of bard, and not accompanying it?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm so sorry. It must be so painful to only have mch in 5/10 top god kefka speed runs. Such a tragedy. This needs to be fixed immediately, why shouldn't they be 10/10? Come on squeenix, think of the poor gun bards. Why should a ranged physical ever have to think of needing to compete with a.... caster.... gross. Casters can't be meta right?

I would spell out how woefully obtuse this response was, but Dualgunner did it for me. Regardless, you assume I have some personal attachment to Machinist? Why would it be "so painful" when I'm an omni-melee raider?

[Zerathor]

I would spell out how woefully obtuse this response was, but Dualgunner did it for me. Regardless, you assume I have some personal attachment to Machinist? Why would it be "so painful" when I'm an omni-melee raider?

I find it annoying that this is actually some concern to mch when utility wise, they'll still be relevant. Considering that casters are just barely, finally being able to compete, and if they decide to yield for a caster, its a smn thats gets placed over blm. There are a plethora of other issues that are far more out of wack than mch sometimes being a slight toss up for meta groups.