The Black vs. White balance bars for Red Mage is kinda pointless....

[Jkap_Goat]

Yeah I don't like what they did to rdm here as well, it seems like a BLM with a one cure and a raise, that's it really. I don't feel like a "jack of all trades" I also don't feel ffxiv rdm is unique. FFXI rdm is able to scratch that itch for me as I started to play it. Im loving RDM here. More healing spells and support spells as well as BLM spells. It truly feels like a RDM.

[maestroanth]

but I get OP, the job quests tell you that you're balancing the white and black magicks but in reality you're just casting damage spells (mostly associated with black magic) while vercure/verraise (white magic supposedly) are not expected to be part of your rotation.
it would be awesome if there are other things happening, like building up your white mana will grant buffs on you/party while black mana debuffs enemy. so balancing is kind of a mini-game to keep the buffs and debuffs up, not just building up the gauge.
however, the current RDM is what we got, and don't get me wrong I do enjoy this job, but I wouldn't mind seeing more from it in the future.

Ya, I think you explained my point a little more clearly. This "white magic" BS is just an excuse to throw the "white" label on spells that really play a BLM role still. That part itches me the wrong way.

[maestroanth]

If you build only one color of mana, it gets harder to build the other. You need both for your weaponskills to become enchanted. Your combo finisher depends on what mana you have more of (Verholy if you have more black mana than white, Verflare otherwise). Besides, too much utility stuff on a DPS would be really bad. You may as well just call it the game's first support job and piss off the bards.

I think you kinda missed my point. The other dude just above you explained what I was getting at a little better I think. Veraero and verstone is "white magic" that really plays a dps role no different than your "black magic", and it really shouldn't be doing that to truly feel like a RDM.

So if you want the 2 magics to retain the integrity of their roles, then yes RDM should be the game's first support job IMO, and I would expect a class titled "Bard" to be support as well....and that was honestly what I was expecting when reading the ad....

[maestroanth]

Yeah I don't like what they did to rdm here as well, it seems like a BLM with a one cure and a raise, that's it really. I don't feel like a "jack of all trades" I also don't feel ffxiv rdm is unique. FFXI rdm is able to scratch that itch for me as I started to play it. Im loving RDM here. More healing spells and support spells as well as BLM spells. It truly feels like a RDM.

Ya FFXI RDM is better designed IMO as well (from what I remember), but FFXI still retained all the painful masochist qualities as the original everquest MMO design did before WoW came along and actually made this genre "fun" lol

[Ceallach]

I think you kinda missed my point. The other dude just above you explained what I was getting at a little better I think. Veraero and verstone is "white magic" that really plays a dps role no different than your "black magic", and it really shouldn't be doing that to truly feel like a RDM.

So if you want the 2 magics to retain the integrity of their roles, then yes RDM should be the game's first support job IMO, and I would expect a class titled "Bard" to be support as well....and that was honestly what I was expecting when reading the ad....

Well, the game already has tanks, healers, and DPS. Where would a support role fit?

[maestroanth]

Well, the game already has tanks, healers, and DPS. Where would a support role fit?

It would take some creativity I imagine. Rift and DDO was always so awesome with that. I remember the "life mage" in rift would literally dps by shooting nature puke at the mob and at the same time it would aoe heal the party. Man that game was so awesome before it went all wonky and next to impossible to return to.

However, all in all, I'd be attracted to game that can still have parties, INTERESTING and challenge solo questing, and pvp that simply did away with these "roles" or work towards that in a fun and engaging way.

[zuzu-bq]

The problem of the "Support" as a whole is that they'd have to rebuild the DF matchmaking to make it fit. They already said they abandoned the idea so no hybrids will surface. RDM design was well done to fit into the classic style combined with the most current RDM iteration (that have a heavy focus on melee skills and damage) into XIV's systems.

[Jkap_Goat]

But RED MAGE is a hybrid, its supposed act like one, not just DPS. Ffxi did a great job with it FFXIV, not at all.

[Hasrat]

This may come as no surprise, but this isn't FFXI.

Snark aside, perhaps if you look at it from a different perspective, one independent of expectations, you might see it fitting a little better. Stone and Aero are white magic; being damaging spells doesn't take away from that. It's all in how they're presented, the lore of the spells.

But, your point is still pretty valid. We can only hope that now that the job is here in a basic form, we can see it evolve in the future to something that may actually utilize an imbalance, developing more mechanics that feel rooted in the respective fields.

[duvvvv]

I just think they could add more...utility to the procs, because doing nm content, I could definitely ignore Verstone/fire unless I want to build mana faster for melee. Veraero could have additional 5-sec party shield or dmg buff when cast for example. Verthunder could be a 5-sec aoe paralysis like its BLM counterpart. currently, the jack-of-all-trades design for RDM can be experienced in full in Eureka as a "rezz mage"; Vercure to proc dual cast or Vercure+Verraise combo is a normal if not part of an optimal rotation especially if you don't have a healer in the party.