Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Remyogic]

The only thing sketchy here is your definition in why you are trying to use a sketchy definition to defend SE in claiming there is no P2W with this app when it is a FACT it is P2W!

Ok, I'll roll with you on this.

FACT: a thing that is indisputably the case

Tell me FACTUALLY, EXACTLY what I WIN by paying for this app. No hyperboles, no could-be's, no theories, no could-be's, no opinions (since we're dealing in FACTS). Tell me, in detail, how I WIN FFXIV by paying for this app. Then I'll boycott the app with you.

[Divinemights]

Ok, I'll roll with you on this.

FACT: a thing that is indisputably the case

Tell me FACTUALLY, EXACTLY what I WIN by paying for this app. No hyperboles, no could-be's, no theories, no could-be's, no opinions (since we're dealing in FACTS). Tell me, in detail, how I WIN FFXIV by paying for this app. Then I'll boycott the app with you.

Why are you arguing with someone public announced he has un-subscribed?

[Lilseph]

Why are you arguing with someone public announced he has un-subscribed?

Because chances are that they didn't.

[Laerad3993]

Why are you arguing with someone public announced he has un-subscribed?

Or arguing with someone who refuses to post from their main account. They’ve admitted that one isn’t their legit account/character in other threads.

[Vstarstruck]

Ok, I'll roll with you on this.

FACT: a thing that is indisputably the case

Tell me FACTUALLY, EXACTLY what I WIN by paying for this app. No hyperboles, no could-be's, no theories, no could-be's, no opinions (since we're dealing in FACTS). Tell me, in detail, how I WIN FFXIV by paying for this app. Then I'll boycott the app with you.

It is in the first post, you are moving goal posts because it is SE!

The retainers you pay for should just be there for inventory space, no MB listings, no ventures. Locking ventures and extra MB slots is making MB management pay to win and unfair to those that pay on base SUB. This also means removal of the proposed IRL currency for the new app, not allowing those to spam undercutting just because they are rich.

In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Some critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" or "p2w" games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.[34] For example, games—such as Dota 2, League of Legends, and Maplestory—only allow the purchase of cosmetic items, meaning that a "free-to-play player" will be on the same level as a player who has spent money on the game.

a sub model shouldn't have any pay to win aspects to it, and even arguable that f2p shouldn't have p2w aspects in it, so why is this sub model game having ptw in it?

Depends on how you define P2W. It used to be that anything that let you pay real money to circumvent a gameplay limitation was considered P2W. But because it's SE, people are now trying to change it to mean something else.

Just thought I edit this in because people want to change what P2W means. In this case, having 180 (after app 200) sell slots per character, making it 1600 per server/ account (so duo box will have 3200 etc.) while base sub is 320 per 8 chrs, or 40 per chr. This glaringly fits the meaning of P2W, what is literally defined as "winning" is not the point of this thread, and I do not know how that is missed by many. I do not want to pay 30 EUR or whatever it ends up being (my understanding 36 USD) plus micro transactions just to keep up sales. 36 USD+ micro transactions means that one person can rule the pricing on a lot of key items because of this P2W situation now

.

This is pay to win. You are paying for an extra advantage someone else does not get, why is it so hard to understand this fact? Is it that hard to read the first post? It has been answered. Just because you may not care about gil or the effects DOES NOT CHANGE this app and retainers are by definition pay to win.
1. More sell space, 40 vs 200, 320 vs 1600
2. micotranctions to gate placing stuff on the MB, so someone spending lots of money uses this to control the MB

Do you know how the MB works at all? top listed is what sells most of the time, no one pays attention to the tax. So you have to pay an extra sub fee, then micro transactions to get further into the pay to win on top of the pay to win sell space.

Sur you know how the MB worked?

Do you honestly sell more than 40 items an hour, let alone a day?

I'm currently paying for 8 retainers who are all 20/20 with a variety of things that typically sell quickly. Guess what? Nothing goes that fast unless someone's clicking down a list buying up -everything-.)

That's why having the extra sell space is pay to win.. UGH!!!! you get to make more different things (something base sub can't do since they are limited to 40) so one sells and you replace it, you get more activity by having more sale slots.

Yes having the phone app does help because you can price change, even prince change one item (maybe) without taking the other 19 items down. (since the idea is streamlined) you are right it may not help "sell faster" since that is determined on someone needing the item in the first place. However when someone needs it and your not at the top listed, you lost that sale.

[reiichi]

snip

Sur you know how the MB worked?

Do you honestly sell more than 40 items an hour, let alone a day?

I'm currently paying for 8 retainers who are all 20/20 with a variety of things that typically sell quickly. Guess what? Nothing goes that fast unless someone's clicking down a list buying up -everything-.

Being able to adjust it on my phone wouldn't speed that up. Or add some sort of advantage when I'm already on a computer and logged into the game. Anyone spending EXTRA money in microtransactions to do something they could already do in game is just giving free money to SE. They're not improving their chances over people like me constantly monitoring my retainers when I'm awake. (And even then, the undercutters have destroyed most things I do and I refuse to drop a a crafted item below the cost of the materials to make it.)

[Jandor]

You get a slight advantage by signing up for more retainers, it seems pretty undeniable to me. More inventory, more ventures, more market board listings.

Call it what you like really, LeoLupinos was right by reply #4, it's only going one way from here.

[Okamimaru]

You get a slight advantage by signing up for more retainers, it seems pretty undeniable to me. More inventory, more ventures, more market board listings.

I don't get the obsession with the MB.... does it matter how many slots you really take up? Is there a limit to how many of a certain item can be listed? If you put up 160 slots of bat wings (item off top of my head) does that mean I can't sell any? Does it prevent me from undercutting you? I have 2 retainers.... I also managed to buy 2 houses and an apartment and fully furnish them mostly off the MB... I have no plans to buy more retainers because I don't need them to be competitive... they don't help clear content, they won't reserve a housing plot for you, they won't make you a better crafter or gatherer, they won't level you or your chocobo faster.... market board domination? Last I checked marketboard domination isn't listed as a gameplay feature...

[Vstarstruck]

I don't get the obsession with the MB.... does it matter how many slots you really take up? Is there a limit to how many of a certain item can be listed? If you put up 160 slots of bat wings (item off top of my head) does that mean I can't sell any? Does it prevent me from undercutting you? I have 2 retainers.... I also managed to buy 2 houses and an apartment and fully furnish them mostly off the MB... I have no plans to buy more retainers because I don't need them to be competitive... they don't help clear content, they won't reserve a housing plot for you, they won't make you a better crafter or gatherer, they won't level you or your chocobo faster.... market board domination? Last I checked marketboard domination isn't listed as a gameplay feature...

That is not how you play the MB, you make 200/1600/ w/e you want to manage of diff items, unless it is some rare thing, you simply buy it out and list them on alts. Sometimes you may make a clone or 2 of some item if it is fast moving (typically leve turn ins you want more then 1 of)

People that play the MB fully are not doing so off bat wings or other petty crap.

What YOU HAVE.. and YOUR GOALS.. does not change if this is P2W or not.

[reiichi]

You get a slight advantage by signing up for more retainers, it seems pretty undeniable to me. More inventory, more ventures, more market board listings.

Call it what you like really, LeoLupinos was right by reply #4, it's only going one way from here.

Right, but the core argument of pay to win is that it creates an unfair advantage. Access to more than two retainers doesn't grant some new game feature beyond what a player already had access to.

More ventures yields more items, but it's not like the ability to run a venture was only enabled for retainers 3+. The same goes with the other retainer perks. It's more slots, but they aren't giving a player something other players couldn't have done without spending money. (Assuming most people who aren't crafters probably have no need to hoard that many items. Especially when you can mulch gear down for the glamour dresser and coming 4.3, get it back if you need it for leveling or something.)

And given how long we've had the Mog Station around, if they were going to introduce some lv1 i999 weapon that won't get synced, it would probably have been done by now. Even all the EXP-boosting gear has limits.