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  1. #251
    Player
    Vrankyl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    567
    Character
    Tsenno Se'senovoto
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    I was holding out hope that someone mistranslated something, but with the digest that is out the window. I see no reason to tank or heal this at any point, I don't see why one should subject themselves to the added stress of the role ((especially healer)) only to have the chance to lose the healer gear to the dps who has been dead and afk 90% of the raid. Probably just going to run this once a week for the token and never look back.
    (8)

  2. #252
    Player
    FeliAiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    591
    Character
    Feli Aiko
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    I don't see this being a long term thing. After it's implemented and feedback rings out, I reckon SE will end up reversing the decision.
    (1)

  3. #253
    Player
    Fyce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,755
    Character
    Fyce Alvey
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard View Post
    I think Tokens would be the best solution to make people not have to run it extra times for loot, as the biggest reason most people do is that on the first 20 times through, the loot RNG decides not to drop what people want. Most people are getting their loot on the first try when it does actually drop.
    With tokens, you wouldn't need to get the RNG to drop the correct slot item for the correct role, you just run the dungeon and turn in your token(s) to get your loot.

    Of course they'd have to make it rewarding enough to do it more than once a week, and being able to just grind endless amounts of loot wouldn't be good, so maybe increase other rewards... Gil, Tomestones and Materias...
    What kind of token system though? For example, Omega's can definitly make you run extra times to get what you want. So not all systems are good for the job.

    1) Would the 8-raids system fit the 24-raids? You'd still have to compete with other people, making the number of runs to do random.
    2) Would the EX trials loot system (token+regular drop) fit? Also nope, because the EX trial system is not meant for a weekly lockout.
    3) Would a system similar to tomestones be good enough? It wouldn't be better than "go kill 10 wolves" except the wolves are 45mn to one hour instances. It'd also drive away people who just want whatever piece of gear they can get. And finally, you'd completly lose the exastic feeling people get when getting lucky with their loot, which is something a lot of people underestimate but is actually pretty important in MMORPG which are grindy by nature.
    4) Would a system awarding you with a random number of tokens be fine? (For example, getting between 1 and 3 tokens and you'd need 10 for a piece.) Still feels like a chore while also creates unfair situations where a terrible player would get more than you for no reason. Similar issues as 3). Just a bit better.

    It's not easy to come up with a perfect solution. And a bad token system can be devastating.
    A lot of people in this thread are saying "just make a token system!". A lot don't even give specifics, and when they do, it's usually far from flawless.

    So, yeah, not as easy as it sounds.
    (0)

  4. #254
    Player
    Azper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    889
    Character
    Aria Ashford
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    This is right up there with the MSQ Roulette changes in terms of stupidity. There was nothing wrong with it as it was (i.e. going on the job you wanted gear on). It's not like the entry ilvl requirement on 24-mans is painfully high to begin with. This change will only serve to kill your tank/healer queues because who wants to go on a job with the highest responsibility only to get outrolled by someone (potentially) contributing far less.

    I'll go once a week for a my token, as I'm sure others will, but that's it. Good luck trying to run this late in the week or close to reset.
    (4)

  5. #255
    Player
    Ariane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    240
    Character
    Ariane Claudel
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 97
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyce View Post
    What kind of token system though? For example, Omega's can definitly make you run extra times to get what you want. So not all systems are good for the job.

    1) Would the 8-raids system fit the 24-raids? You'd still have to compete with other people, making the number of runs to do random.
    2) Would the EX trials loot system (token+regular drop) fit? Also nope, because the EX trial system is not meant for a weekly lockout.
    3) Would a system similar to tomestones be good enough? It wouldn't be better than "go kill 10 wolves" except the wolves are 45mn to one hour instances. It'd also drive away people who just want whatever piece of gear they can get. And finally, you'd completly lose the exastic feeling people get when getting lucky with their loot, which is something a lot of people underestimate but is actually pretty important in MMORPG which are grindy by nature.
    4) Would a system awarding you with a random number of tokens be fine? (For example, getting between 1 and 3 tokens and you'd need 10 for a piece.) Still feels like a chore while also creates unfair situations where a terrible player would get more than you for no reason. Similar issues as 3). Just a bit better.

    It's not easy to come up with a perfect solution. And a bad token system can be devastating.
    A lot of people in this thread are saying "just make a token system!". A lot don't even give specifics, and when they do, it's usually far from flawless.

    So, yeah, not as easy as it sounds.
    You can do almost anything with tokens. You can keep the random loot with the weekly lockout and not increase how much loot you can get in a week, and still have a token system. An example is you make it so if you run the Alliance Raid three times in week and if you did not win any loot in those 3 runs, when you leave on the 3rd time, you get a token. The token can be traded in for one piece of gear that drops in that Alliance raid. The token puts you out on the weekly lockout for loot, so no getting two armor pieces in one week. You still can get lucky and get done quicker. The only difference now than before there is token to limit on how unlucky you can get.
    (6)
    Last edited by Ariane; 04-21-2018 at 02:10 AM.

  6. #256
    Player
    CaptainLagbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,307
    Character
    Rhaya Jakkya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariane View Post
    You can do almost anything with tokens. You can keep the random loot with the weekly lockout and not increase how much loot you can get in a week, and still have a token system. An example is you make it so if you run the Alliance Raid three times in week and if you did not win any loot in those 3 runs, when you leave on the 3rd time, you get a token. The token can be traded in for one piece of gear that drops in that Alliance raid. The token puts you out on the weekly lockout for loot, so no getting two armor pieces in one week. You still can get lucky and get done quicker. The only difference now than before there is token to limit on how unlucky you can get.
    That sounds like a good way of doing it, and 3 or so would be a reasonable limit.
    (3)

  7. #257
    Player
    Squintina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,054
    Character
    Squintina Nightgard
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    So Mr. Happy brought up something on his video (about differences with JP players) and it got me thinking

    The premise:
    So what he stated was the JP players actually queue up on their mains to get gear for their side jobs in order to ensure the run is as smooth as possible.

    And while like most people my inclination was "you should play the job you want gear for", I decided to step back and think about what their view means.

    And specifically I was thinking of the worst Rabanastre run I've ever had. We wiped on the first 2 bosses probably 10+ times. I was in there so long, people I know thought I was in multiple runs.
    People were playing badly and it showed. I wanted to leave, but the longer I stayed, the longer I felt like if I abandoned I wasted my time (leading to a cycle of wasting even more time until we eventually did beat it..with less than 5 mins left until timeout)

    Now I don't know if the poor play was people not knowing mechs, or not knowing their jobs, or just being bad in general. But suddenly I started wondering: This run was a later run, many weeks after release and therefore a lot of people would have had already finished their mains's gear. If there were people trying to get gear for a side job they didn't know how to play efficiently yet, possibly in underwhelming gear, they'd be affecting our runs.

    Had we gotten people who played well and fully geared jobs, I could have probably done 3 runs in that amount of time.

    And that got me thinking further.

    The proposed change, which we agree would make people have to do more runs overall, might be balanced out slightly by being able to do more runs in the same amount of time.

    I'm still not sure if I feel this view would overall change my mind about this change (which I still don't like much), but putting myself into that scenario I do feel like I understand why the JP players would and I do see a small degree of merit in this change.
    (2)
    Last edited by Squintina; 04-21-2018 at 02:45 AM.

  8. #258
    Player
    Bourne_Endeavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    5,377
    Character
    Cassandra Solidor
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyce View Post
    ... Or maybe it's just me, and I don't understand why 24-raids are so special that they must be treated as an exception.
    They'll be special, alright. Something you end up having to run 50+ times because you want the tank chest, only saw three, and they all went to DPS who died several times. At this rate, just put a token system in for 24-mans too because their new system is abysmal RNG. On the fortunate side, Eureka relaces five weeks later and renders most of the Rabastre gear obsolete.
    (7)

  9. #259
    Player
    Chibishedevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    15
    Character
    Alex Brangwin
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Just to chime in with an unpopular opinion. I come from a small FC, and not everyone is caught up in SB yet. I'm the only one at the cap story, etc. So, all my clears come from Duty finder until more of my FC catches up. I don't know anyone else I like enough to really do raid content and I find more often then not, I get toxic groups in raids. So I usually stick with the Alliance raids to gear up. I'm often running things on the class I need gear on, so this change is insulting. Not everyone runs the top end raids to gear up. This change assumes everyone plays ONE way and ONE way only. I hate it. It's often hard enough to get the gear I need to drop at all.
    (18)

  10. #260
    Player
    silverlunarfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Shirogane
    Posts
    1,036
    Character
    Loki Lux
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Chibishedevil View Post
    Not everyone runs the top end raids to gear up. This change assumes everyone plays ONE way and ONE way only.
    This is exactly it.
    (12)

    "Within each of us, the potential for great power waits to be released."

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