All Greed on Alliance loot

[Fyce]

If this whole All Greed thing isn't THOROUGHLY explained in the next LL, I quit. That's just how it is.
It shouldn't be near-impossible to get gear that you may need from a place that is designed for catch-up gear for those left behind. But maybe there will be a token system, like with raids...?
I will wait until next Live Letter, and if it still hasn't been adjusted, or if it indeed isn't some kind of a decent token system now, I quit. I just don't see why they removed Need from it. SE's doing some very bad moves.

The explanation is simple: JP players have some kind of unspoken social rule which pretty much forces you to to everything you can to be performing at the best level you can achieve for the team/alliance.
This means that they are more often than not doing 24-raids with their main job, which is the one they play the best with. This makes it difficult for them to acquire gear from these instances for their alt-jobs.

The outcry mostly comes from the rest of the world, which doesn't care about being credit to team or not. It's mostly people wanting to keep their priviledges of being able to mostly secure loot (especially tanks, but not only) even if they play extremely poorly.

It's not the first time that our self-centered behavior is detrimental to us, whereas it's fine in Japan since this way of playing is mostly nonexistent. So, while this new system will be doing a fine work in JP, it doesn't fit wish our way of playing.
They care about "how can I be the most helpful to my fellow players?" and we care about "what is the most effective way for me to get my loot while doing as little as I can?". Obviously, some systems won't be compatible with the two approaches.

[Vstarstruck]

The explanation is simple: JP players have some kind of unspoken social rule which pretty much forces you to to everything you can to be performing at the best level you can achieve for the team/alliance.
This means that they are more often than not doing 24-raids with their main job, which is the one they play the best with. This makes it difficult for them to acquire gear from these instances for their alt-jobs.

The outcry mostly comes from the rest of the world, which doesn't care about being credit to team or not. It's mostly people wanting to keep their priviledges of being able to mostly secure loot (especially tanks, but not only) even if they play extremely poorly.

It's not the first time that our self-centered behavior is detrimental to us, whereas it's fine in Japan since this way of playing is mostly nonexistent. So, while this new system will be doing a fine work in JP, it doesn't fit wish our way of playing.
They care about "how can I be the most helpful to my fellow players?" and we care about "what is the most effective way for me to get my loot while doing as little as I can?". Obviously, some systems won't be compatible with the two approaches.

Then this explanation is simple, stop ignoring 2/3s of your player base. Why do the needs of Japanese players outweigh what we need?

[Hestzhyen]

A weeaboo speaketh.

Hey now. Just because I go in on a job that barely makes it over the ilvl for gear doesn't mean I will be doing poorly. I might not be the best tank or DPS ever but I actively strive to be a positive contribution that doesn't bring down or wipe the team. If I meet the requirements to get in and work to earn my place in the team, why is that somehow a bad thing that makes me worse and more selfish than a Japanese player? There will always be lazy leeches that just go in to spam a skill and roll on loot but most players at least make a token effort. I can see expecting people to bring their mains on release week but after people get used to mechanics and the average ilvl starts to go up, bring whatever you want as long as you'll make an honest try at clearing the instance. The Japanese way of approaching PUG content isn't the inherently better way. It's just different.

I don't know what it's like to play on JP servers but if the Greed Only bit is because of players' self-imposed constraints rather than technical ones, then MAYBE SE should look at the wider audience before making changes like this. It's going to take forever and a day to get loot now regardless of what I play. GG SE, you're finding ways to make the content I consider worth subbing for more frustrating and grindtastic. It's not like someone's sitting in a room and plotting to personally annoy the crap out of me but I can't fathom why SE is doing what it's doing lately. I'm not a happy customer.

[Rokke]

They care about "how can I be the most helpful to my fellow players?" and we care about "what is the most effective way for me to get my loot while doing as little as I can?". Obviously, some systems won't be compatible with the two approaches.

How does the new system help eliminate the latter? If a tank chestpiece drops, whats stopping the BLM main that spends most of a fight dead from rolling higher than the DRK main thats actually playing tank?

[Fyce]

Hey now. Just because I go in on a job that barely makes it over the ilvl for gear doesn't mean I will be doing poorly. I might not be the best tank or DPS ever but I actively strive to be a positive contribution that doesn't bring down or wipe the team. If I meet the requirements to get in and work to earn my place in the team, why is that somehow a bad thing that makes me worse and more selfish than a Japanese player? There will always be lazy leeches that just go in to spam a skill and roll on loot but most players at least make a token effort. I can see expecting people to bring their mains on release week but after people get used to mechanics and the average ilvl starts to go up, bring whatever you want as long as you'll make an honest try at clearing the instance. The Japanese way of approaching PUG content isn't the inherently better way. It's just different.

You are in a thread where the vast majority of the people talking are concerned about the new system lowering their chances of getting loot. And that's pretty much all they are concerned about. Some are so passionate about it that they are threatening to unsubscribe. On the other side of the coin, you can count on one hand the number of people who said "I'm glad because I'll now be able to play with the job I'm the most comfortable with and be better for me and my teammates". That very thread is a live proof of what I'm saying. If you want another one, just look at how the two communities play and gave their feedback on Eureka. Have fun with that one.

Anyway, I never said that how JP players are approaching content is better like you said at the end of your paragraph. If you felt that my descriptions did not picture us in a "good way" and felt offended, that's on you. And I don't care about what you do, I'm just speaking about objective cultural differences on a bigger scale than just an individual taking the time to post on the official forums. This stuff has been known for ages. Our issues aren't theirs. At least when it comes to that stuff.

Edit: Oh and speaking about cultural differences and how that impact gameplay for different communities is not "weeaboo speaketh". Nice flame attempt, but you're just being ridiculous.

I don't know what it's like to play on JP servers but if the Greed Only bit is because of players' self-imposed constraints rather than technical ones, then MAYBE SE should look at the wider audience before making changes like this. It's going to take forever and a day to get loot now regardless of what I play. GG SE, you're finding ways to make the content I consider worth subbing for more frustrating and grindtastic. It's not like someone's sitting in a room and plotting to personally annoy the crap out of me but I can't fathom why SE is doing what it's doing lately. I'm not a happy customer.

Someone wanted an explanation about the reason why they'd do that change. A lot of people in this thread actually didn't have a clue. I'm just shining light on the obvious.
I'm not saying if SE should or shouldn't see their playerbase with a bigger scope, simply because I don't care about that discussion. If you want to talk to someone about how you think that you matter more than JP players in your eyes, I'm not the guy you should quote or argue with.

How does the new system help eliminate the latter? If a tank chestpiece drops, whats stopping the BLM main that spends most of a fight dead from rolling higher than the DRK main thats actually playing tank?

It doesn't help, and it doesn't matter as it was not the intent with that change. Why? Because, again, that's not a change for us, that's a change for JP players. And they don't have that issue. I'm wondering if you understood my post.
I'll do a tl;dr just for you: this change is meant to fix an issue the JP community has when it comes to gearing their alts. The kind of players you described are a rare exception for them, but not so much in US/EU. That's it. That's all I'm saying.

Is it good? Is it bad? I don't care. I'm just explaining the reason why they came up with that change in the first place.

[Vstarstruck]

You are in a thread where the vast majority of the people talking are concerned about the new system lowering their chances of getting loot. And that's pretty much all they are concerned about. Some are so passionate about it that they are threatening to unsubscribe. On the other side of the coin, you can count on one hand the number of people who said "I'm glad because I'll now be able to play with the job I'm the most confortable with and be better for me and my teammates". That very thread is a live proof of what I'm saying. If you want another one, just look at how the two communities play and gave their feedback on Eureka. Have fun with that one.

You know what? I want hard core proof. I think you blacklist me because of your constant twisting for white knighting, can someone ask this guy for links and proof? I really do not believe it and is just here to white knight like before in other places. So excuse me when I doubt your claims with how you really went extreme with word twisting in the past.

What thread? where are you talking about? I see "Japanese support this" (like with the app) and I see no thread on it?

Even if it is true, you do not split your playerbase and only do changes that benefit one group. I would love to see NA/EU subs tank for 4.3 so they will finally get a clue that Japanese playerbase does not represent the world.

[Nestama]

snip

Well you do have the option to prove them wrong by using the search bar. Simply search 'unsubscribe' and see what you can find and see if they are wrong (also, stop with the name calling/labelling). It should find every post with that word in them.

It's not ordered by date and is specific, so you'd probably have to look up multiples (unsub, unsubbed, unsubscribed, etc)

[Penthea]

On the other side of the coin, you can count on one hand the number of people who said "I'm glad because I'll now be able to play with the job I'm the most confortable with and be better for me and my teammates".

In my opinion if you want to gear a job then you play that job.

If a person isn't comfortable enough to play a certain job, then they frankly are not ready to do the content that job's loot is intended for. You're only going to get good with a job if you play it. You don't get good by playing something else and then waiting until you have great gear. No amount of combat stats is a replacement for playing experience.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying you agree with this, just highlighting a point you brought up.

[Fyce]

In my opinion if you want to gear a job then you play that job.

If a person isn't comfortable enough to play a certain job, then they frankly are not ready to do the content that job's loot is intended for. You're only going to get good with a job if you play it. You don't get good by playing something else and then waiting until you have great gear. No amount of combat stats is a replacement for playing experience.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying you agree with this, just highlighting a point you brought up.

-- I'll put aside he JP issue I was talking about to answer that specific quote. --

Well, if your opinion "you have to play as a job you want a piece of gear for" is solely targeted to make people acquire experience and be better at playing said job, then that too must apply to the current token systems we have in FFXIV. Ie, people shouldn't be able to get tokens (8-raids, tomestones, enhancement materials...) if they plan to get a piece of gear for a different job than the one they played as when getting said tokens (or they should get job-related tokens to buy job-related gear, whatever). If they could, like it is right now, that would be against what you said.

So, if your opinion does apply to token systems too, then great, I can respect it. I can't agree with it as I find the restrictions it puts on the "fun factor" of playing the game too harsh though, but I respect it anyway.
If it doesn't, then you bring a contradiction/double standard to the table where you put an arbitrary line between gear which can be acquired freely, and gear that can't.

Like, there's no objective reason why someone would say "in 24-raids, people should be forced to play as the job they want gear to. But in roulettes/PvP/Eureka/8-raids normal/etc. it's fine to play whatever and buy anything with their tokens". Why 24-raids? Can't they get experience and be better at playing their job in other type of content? You get the idea.

I mean, I get where this is coming from. What you said was to make people perform better, which is something quite positive. Some others find value in these systems as they offer some kind of "reward" and play on the subject of merit. But it's also something dangerous to ask for, as it could lead to restrictions they don't really wanted in the first place. For example, almost every time we get job specific gear instead of gear shared by role, there are complaints. However, a strict "play as the job you want gear for" is right up that idea.
So, do we want all gear to be job specific and that I could only be acquired by playing the job in question regardless of the content? That'd change FFXIV quite a lot, and I'm pretty sure that's not what people actually want. But that's how some posts in that thread are worded.

In short, people should be careful in what they are asking. Or, actually, how they are asking it.

... Or maybe it's just me, and I don't understand why 24-raids are so special that they must be treated as an exception.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

... Or maybe it's just me, and I don't understand why 24-raids are so special that they must be treated as an exception.

They'll be special, alright. Something you end up having to run 50+ times because you want the tank chest, only saw three, and they all went to DPS who died several times. At this rate, just put a token system in for 24-mans too because their new system is abysmal RNG. On the fortunate side, Eureka relaces five weeks later and renders most of the Rabastre gear obsolete.