“non-essential” premium content, does SE want this kind of reputation if it continue?

[Isala]

To the people saying we should "Wait and see." I get that you're trying to avoid the doomsaying, and all that jazz. But we have waited and seen many times before. This behavior isn't just limited to this specific instance. Just because SE is doing this now to FFXIV doesn't mean that this isn't the same kind of thing we have seen over and over again from other companies. We don't want that kind of garbage in our FFXIV. You know what happens when you wait and see with crap like this? YOU GET MORE CRAP.

[Talraen]

To the people saying we should "Wait and see." I get that you're trying to avoid the doomsaying, and all that jazz. But we have waited and seen many times before. This behavior isn't just limited to this specific instance. Just because SE is doing this now to FFXIV doesn't mean that this isn't the same kind of thing we have seen over and over again from other companies. We don't want that kind of garbage in our FFXIV. You know what happens when you wait and see with crap like this? YOU GET MORE CRAP.

The disconnect for me is that I don't consider anything Square Enix have started selling to be the kind of crap to worry about. It's not a slippery slope if you haven't actually stepped onto the slope yet. Granted, they now have the infrastructure to sell tokens and who knows what else, but they're only using it for something that there's a legitimate reason to rate limit. The first time they actually cross a line, I'll complain, but no amount of glamours, mounts, extra retainers, or the like is ever going to be across the line for me. To me the argument essentially sounds like "they're selling stuff of no consequence, therefore they're going to start selling things of consequence!" and that doesn't logically follow.

[Vstarstruck]

The disconnect for me is that I don't consider anything Square Enix have started selling to be the kind of crap to worry about. It's not a slippery slope if you haven't actually stepped onto the slope yet. Granted, they now have the infrastructure to sell tokens and who knows what else, but they're only using it for something that there's a legitimate reason to rate limit. The first time they actually crossa line, I'll complain, but no amount of glamours, mounts, extra retainers, or the like is ever going to be across the line for me. To me the argument essentially sounds like "they're selling stuff of no consequence, therefore they're going to start selling things of consequence!" and that doesn't logically follow.

Retainers started to cross the line, the amount now is past crossing the line, now they are locking basic UI features behind a second sub fee? I don't think so. So everyone posting this wait and see is BS, and yet SE reps can reply here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...76#post4649276
So clearly SE is not understanding the worry of this issue, so I offered more detailed insight why it is a worry (for those questining why I made this thread at all)

Even asked for more communication here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...munity-teamand yet that has no reply as well

For the people trying to defend this "its optional" yeah I guess you missed the main point in the title of the thread.

[Talraen]

Retainers started to cross the line, the amount now is past crossing the line, now they are locking basic UI features behind a second sub fee? I don't think so. So everyone posting this wait and see is BS, and yet SE reps can reply here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...76#post4649276
So clearly SE is not understanding the worry of this issue, so I offered more detailed insight why it is a worry (for those questining why I made this thread at all)

I disagree that retainers are crossing the line. Yes, it is technically a competitive advantage to be able to sell more stuff at once, but given how little gameplay advantage gil provides, it's so negligible as to be safely ignored. They aren't locking any UI features that offer any advantage being the app subscription fee. The feature that does offer an advantage, dealing with the marketboard, is available for free in game.

The simple fact is, all of this game's many extra fees and charges are buying one of two things: glamour, or convenience. If you want the convenience but don't want to pay extra for it, I feel for you, but that doesn't make it a slippery slope towards doom.

As a side note, Square Enix only responds when they have something concrete to say, so their lack of a response on this issue is not surprising, nor does it indicate how they've prioritized the issue.

[Vstarstruck]

I disagree that retainers are crossing the line. Yes, it is technically a competitive advantage to be able to sell more stuff at once, but given how little gameplay advantage gil provides, it's so negligible as to be safely ignored. They aren't locking any UI features that offer any advantage being the app subscription fee. The feature that does offer an advantage, dealing with the marketboard, is available for free in game.

The simple fact is, all of this game's many extra fees and charges are buying one of two things: glamour, or convenience. If you want the convenience but don't want to pay extra for it, I feel for you, but that doesn't make it a slippery slope towards doom.

As a side note, Square Enix only responds when they have something concrete to say, so their lack of a response on this issue is not surprising, nor does it indicate how they've prioritized the issue.

Moving items from retainer to retainer is a basic feature that comes with the game, this is something when you buy the game itself along with some of the sub money funds. I did not say it brings an advantage, I am implying, and something I said before, is this is no different then konami charging 10 dollars per save file, and I would argue this is worse since that is a one time fee.

Your own argument is a slippery slope, oh the gold saucer is only optional, lets add a 2 dollar a month access, etc..

Regardless I did also speak with my wallet, My sub did end, and I do not have much time left on the forums.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

no different then konami charging 10 dollars per save file, and I would argue this is worse since that is a one time fee.

... really? Being able to sell more items compares to requiring to you delete your entire character should you want to start fresh? This is what people mean when you reach way too far. Is this app scummy? Yes. Few would disagree, at least in the West. But you're making silly comparisons and exaggerating how bad it is, which does little to serve your argument.

I mean, let's dissect this. Say the Moogle Coins sell for $1. Myself and another crafter get into an undercutting war. Now I have all afternoon to play from my house while the other person needs to leave, but opts to buy Moogle Coins. Say we undercut each other by 100 gil every five minutes. They'll have spent $12 with absolutely no guarantee their item will sell before mine. Not exactly what I call "winning," even if I readily agree Moogle Coins shouldn't be a thing.

[Vstarstruck]

I would agree that it's no different than Konami charging 10 dollars per save file. I don't think that's pay-to-win either. I mean, FFXI was charging for character slots from the start, and FFXIV has a higher-tier subscription with more characters since 2.0 launched. This isn't new stuff.

My argument is not a slippery slope, because I'm not arguing that anything is going to lead to anything else. I'm not even sure what you mean by that, honestly.

If you're willing to cancel your subscription to protest these new fees and options, more power to you. It's good to stick to your standards.

Where do you see me saying about pay to win in that post? I was specifically talking about blocking a basic UI feature behind a paywall.

... really? Being able to sell more items compares to requiring to you delete your entire character should you want to start fresh? This is what people mean when you reach way too far. Is this app scummy? Yes. Few would disagree, at least in the West. But you're making silly comparisons and exaggerating how bad it is, which does little to serve your argument.

I mean, let's dissect this. Say the Moogle Coins sell for $1. Myself and another crafter get into an undercutting war. Now I have all afternoon to play from my house while the other person needs to leave, but opts to buy Moogle Coins. Say we undercut each other by 100 gil every five minutes. They'll have spent $12 with absolutely no guarantee their item will sell before mine. Not exactly what I call "winning," even if I readily agree Moogle Coins shouldn't be a thing.

No, your not understanding, again this has nothing to do with sell space or putting PTW advantages in the game. You do not extra fee basic UI features that should be in the base game, that act alone puts it on konami or EA, that is not an exaggeration. Something you do not agree with does not mean it is an exaggeration, stop giving them passes, it is how they keep pushing down the slippery slope, doing small concepts like that to keep pushing down more and more. Paying for 2 then 4 then 6 retainers was getting bad enough.

Also grats you just described how they can put loot boxes in this game without being under the name "loot boxes"

[Remedi]

Not exactly what I call "winning,"

If anything you would be the winner by making him spend IRL money :P

[Talraen]

Moving items from retainer to retainer is a basic feature that comes with the game, this is something when you buy the game itself along with some of the sub money funds. I did not say it brings an advantage, I am implying, and something I said before, is this is no different then konami charging 10 dollars per save file, and I would argue this is worse since that is a one time fee.

Your own argument is a slippery slope, oh the gold saucer is only optional, lets add a 2 dollar a month access, etc..

Regardless I did also speak with my wallet, My sub did end, and I do not have much time left on the forums.

I would agree that it's no different than Konami charging 10 dollars per save file. I don't think that's pay-to-win either. I mean, FFXI was charging for character slots from the start, and FFXIV has a higher-tier subscription with more characters since 2.0 launched. This isn't new stuff.

My argument is not a slippery slope, because I'm not arguing that anything is going to lead to anything else. I'm not even sure what you mean by that, honestly.

If you're willing to cancel your subscription to protest these new fees and options, more power to you. It's good to stick to your standards.

[Rinuko]

FFXI was charging for character slots from the start, and FFXIV has a higher-tier subscription with more characters since 2.0 launched. This isn't new stuff.

XI still charge for extra slots AND inventory space.

If you're willing to cancel your subscription to protest these new fees and options, more power to you. It's good to stick to your standards.

Probably lapsed before this, he/she just likes to complain and exaggerate. Like making multible threads when threads dies.