Seeing Square Enix in a new light. I am grateful for this game.

[Fatch38]

Wouldn’t a comparison against WoW be more appropriate?

should we ? after all WoW is 14 years old now (being that "old" and can still put FF to shame game-design wise)

[Mizunoko]

Aren’t we really comparing apples and oranges here?

TERA is a free to play game. I can play it for nothing.

FFXIV is a pay to play subscription game. I expect to get something significantly better.

Wouldn’t a comparison against WoW be more appropriate?

Not really, I've stated this on a previous page of this thread. You can't use one is ftp and one is sub based to say you can't compare because that implies that just because one game has a different form of profit ( pay to win vs pay to play) means that somehow the dev team of the sub game does a better job on their game. Size of teams only differs the time things gets done. What i am talking about is quality and how good of a job they do. Tera rakes in enough profit to do a heck of a lot better than they are doing now. This is about the overall dev team for tera just being bad at what they do or just plain not giving a crap about doing a good job. Completely different things. Also If you want to use difference in pay style i can argue difference in age for a comparison with WoW, but like i said this is less about how they make their profits and more about the dev teams doing their jobs properly.

[Maero]

Tera is not as good as ffxiv sure but it still does do things better then FF (rewards and the combat as example) this of course is matter of opinion
As for Wow i have heard from countless people it still looks like it did 10 or so years ago.
Myself i have always been console so cannot comment myself about Wow

[Istaru]

Not really, I've stated this on a previous page of this thread. You can't use one is ftp and one is sub based to say you can't compare because that implies that just because one game has a different form of profit ( pay to win vs pay to play) means that somehow the dev team of the sub game does a better job on their game. Size of teams only differs the time things gets done. What i am talking about is quality and how good of a job they do. Tera rakes in enough profit to do a heck of a lot better than they are doing now. This is about the overall dev team for tera just being bad at what they do or just plain not giving a crap about doing a good job. Completely different things. Also If you want to use difference in pay style i can argue difference in age for a comparison with WoW, but like i said this is less about how they make their profits and more about the dev teams doing their jobs properly.

Ok, we just have different ways of setting our expectations is all. My expectations are dependent upon what something costs me. I can understand someone having absolute expectations instead.

[Vahlnir]

Tera is not as good as ffxiv sure but it still does do things better then FF (rewards and the combat as example) this of course is matter of opinion
As for Wow i have heard from countless people it still looks like it did 10 or so years ago.
Myself i have always been console so cannot comment myself about Wow

WoW looks vastly different than it did roughly 10 years ago. They upgrade the engine with each expansion. They've also added a ton of new features since then and change the classes pretty often (though I don't care for class changes every expansion myself).

[Mizunoko]

Tera is not as good as ffxiv sure but it still does do things better then FF (rewards and the combat as example) this of course is matter of opinion
As for Wow i have heard from countless people it still looks like it did 10 or so years ago.
Myself i have always been console so cannot comment myself about Wow

That's just your opinion, from my perspective Tera is just junk even the things you stated that you say is better to me they appear worse. FFXIV in my eyes is exactly what i want in am mmo. The rewards, the combat both are better than Tera's. It's all a matter of opinion. What i was talking about earlyer was the clear signs that the dev team for tera is not doing a very good job with fixing the major issues with their game. They wont upgrade or fix their engine issues with it or any of the settings/performance issues despite people complaining about it for years. I have played both games to end game and i can say with full experience on both that compared to tera FFXIV runs smooth as butter on the same exact platform while tera just stutters like heck.

Here is proof of comparison, Both on ps4.

FFXIV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi8tltjU7I4

Versus

Tera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYMLzCNyYSA

(If this were one of the bigger tera raids more equal to the size of the ffxiv video i showed my guess is the persons ps4 would just outright crash)

Now keep in mind that tera video is exactly what i have experienced as well. It is undeniable proof of the major and i mean blatantly MAJOR issues with their games performance. No real person who ACTUALLY cares about the product they pay for would say tera does anything better at all when there is still such a main issue with the game. If that framerate issue was on ff14 SE would be making a public apology and fixing it day 1 regardless of the difference in profit/team size, because they have a sense right and wrong. Tera on the other hand has had this issue on pc for some time now and ps4 port for going on 3 weeks. People seem to think they can brush this off as no biggie when they themselves know this is a game breaking issue. Not to mention this is a simple 5 man dungeon normal end game instance in tera, while the ffxiv video is much more graphical, flashy, and more players, yet on the same platform it runs smooth as butter still. I can do an S rank with 60+ people and my ps4 wont sound like it's trying to rocket to the moon or my performance wont get terrible.

Overall you cannot refute evidence and these videos are just that (evidence). I don't know why people like to try to defend something that is so blatant about how many serious issues it has. Not to mention the latest issues people have with Enmasse lying about what came in a pack that they payed for and then changing the description later on (which is basically against the law, its called false marketing and it's very shady), as well as selling 60 dollar loot boxes that force you to gamble to hopefully get what you want. I could buy a new game for 60 dollars and with that i actually know what i'm getting rather than hoping i get some costume that actually appeals to me. Never the less everyone has their own opinions like i said in the past if tera is your thing than more power to you, but my opinion is that it's a horrible game, and facts show that the dev team and the performance of tera is just trash even for average standards.

[silverlunarfox]

Aren’t we really comparing apples and oranges here?

TERA is a free to play game. I can play it for nothing.

FFXIV is a pay to play subscription game. I expect to get something significantly better.

Wouldn’t a comparison against WoW be more appropriate?

I'd like to note you can compare Tera, because it did start as a Sub based game before going F2P.

Keep in mind, as much as they say they wont do that to FFXIV, money speaks.

It all depends what the company wants to do to get more money.

That's just your opinion, from my perspective Tera is just junk even the things you stated that you say is better to me they appear worse.

Tera has fantastic gameplay, classes and reward system.
However their optimization is severely lacking to where it affects most aspects of the game itself. And they clearly don't care to fix it. Ever.
I wouldn't necessarily say FFXIV is the best either from just a console standpoint. It has its own issues as well, they are just better hidden.

Everyone will always have their pros and cons of a game. But some companies do put forth a bit more effort than others. For those that like to complain about FFXIV, just take a look at that Tera port. That is what poor dev support looks like. FFXIV doesnt have that.

[Mizunoko]

I'd like to note you can compare Tera, because it did start as a Sub based game before going F2P.

Keep in mind, as much as they say they wont do that to FFXIV, money speaks.

It all depends what the company wants to do to get more money.

If you are talking about ffxiv going free to play, i honestly think (and im not just trying to be negative about this) that SE would lose some of its players. There ARE some people who play this game partly or mostly because its not pay to win, and i think the only way FFXIV could go free to play is by encorperating some of that pay to win aspect into it's game. I am sure there is some players out there who would not take that well and possibly quit ffxiv. My preference also leans towards it staying sub based as i enjoy the game just as it is.

Tera has fantastic gameplay, classes and reward system.
However their optimization is severely lacking to where it affects most aspects of the game itself. And they clearly don't care to fix it. Ever.
I wouldn't necessarily say FFXIV is the best either from just a console standpoint. It has its own issues as well, they are just better hidden.

Everyone will always have their pros and cons of a game. But some companies do put forth a bit more effort than others. For those that like to complain about FFXIV, just take a look at that Tera port. That is what poor dev support looks like. FFXIV doesnt have that.

I'm not necessarily trying to say FFXIV is the best mmo out there (while my OPINION is that it is the best in relation to my personal preference), but aside from that basically the whole of what you said i agree with. All games even FFXIV may have their issues, although i feel like the Tera port could have OBVIOUSLY done way better even by average standards and that the dev team is completely at fault for just not caring about their games success or their customers pleas to fix it. There's a difference between the minor issues FFXIV may have versus SERIOUS game breaking performance issues that Tera has on console port and has had on the pc version to this day, and i feel that people need to understand those differences are what can make or break a game.

[silverlunarfox]

If you are talking about ffxiv going free to play, i honestly think (and im not just trying to be negative about this) that SE would lose some of its players. There ARE some people who play this game partly or mostly because its not pay to win, and i think the only way FFXIV could go free to play is by encorperating some of that pay to win aspect into it's game. I am sure there is some players out there who would not take that well and possibly quit ffxiv. My preference also leans towards it staying sub based as i enjoy the game just as it is.

Oh definitely would lose players, but would gain some too. I know a lot of people hoping for the F2P as much as I'm against it at this point and time. But in the end it wouldn't bother me if it did.

I'm not necessarily trying to say FFXIV is the best mmo out there (while my OPINION is that it is the best in relation to my personal preference), but aside from that basically the whole of what you said i agree with. All games even FFXIV may have their issues, although i feel like the Tera port could have OBVIOUSLY done way better even by average standards and that the dev team is completely at fault for just not caring about their games success or their customers pleas to fix it. There's a difference between the minor issues FFXIV may have versus SERIOUS game breaking performance issues that Tera has on console port and has had on the pc version to this day, and i feel that people need to understand those differences are what can make or break a game.

I totally agree.

[Remedi]

There are idd many ppl (well they are from a forum so many is debatable) I know that don't plan on playing because the game has a sub, indidentally they are also the ones disliking p2w the most though