Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Avatre]

As in speculations then? Have SE said we can buy coins? Again, can't recall seeing or hearing this.

Turns out it was speculation based on those screens(I hadn't really read them before, but on closer inspection it doesn't say we can buy the coins/nuts).

All i can read is we can give them coins, not how to obtain said coin unless there is something lost in translation.

I was just going to say this...all it says is "Additional services based on user feedback".

They actually don't state you can buy the kupo nuts/coins for real money, just that you get an ADDITIONAL one per day with premium. So until we actually see the app, and if you can or cannot purchase them, it isn't guaranteed to be the case.

[Rinuko]

What if PVE or PVP aren’t your focus in this game? Then what?

I'm omnicrafter before doing any PVE. I'm clearly P2W.

[Tridus]

I'm going to disagree with you, I'm not sure how more retainers gives more advantage in the game when you aren't following: omni crafter and if you are, then you mostlikely make a lot of gil with less retainers than others. It's how it's used and any smart player in this game would NEVER overflood mats/gear/items on MB, that makes the cost even lower in a shorter time and you make barely any proffit of it.
More glamour space? How is that pay to win? Does glam give you more advantage in pve or pvp? Let me ask you this question, what is the advantage of having more storage in game? What items do you put in there to make you win?

More storage space is itself an advantage, because it means you can keep more things on demand for when you find demand for something or just happen to want it. I only recently got into gardening because I only recently got a house, and suddenly I have piles of seeds that can only be obtained by crossbreeding other seeds. Being able to hoard those instead of having to grow them as needed is a real time saver later. People are ALWAYS complaining about lack of storage and how much crap the game tosses at us, being able to store more of it is clearly beneficial.

More ventures, which for some reason nobody has mentioned but is a pretty obvious one. I always have my retainers out gathering stuff. Lately one's been getting nothing but soil, one's been getting nothing but seeds. Having four more also out getting stuff lets me us quick exploration more often, which ranges in return from garbage to rather expensive rare stuff.

More MB listings are nice if you're into that sort of thing. I only ever max out more than one retainer's listings if I'm purging stuff to free up space to open Eureka lockboxes or something, so I don't care much about that end. But it's a thing for those that do.

Retainers are very useful. There's a reason why people are already paying to get more of them, and it's not for witty one-liners.

I disagree with you Nobody gets a clear advantage for having more retainers.

If you think extra retainers is p2w then the game been p2w for years and then this shouldn't be such a big deal

P2W elements have been here a while, yup. People tend to rationalize them away because they don't like the term being applied to their game, but it's arleady here by the standard definition. That doesn't mean we want more of it.

[Reynhart]

Sure, gils are a means to an end though... A goal, if you will.

No, if it's a mean to an end, that's precisely not a goal by itself.
Please give me a goal (i.e something to spend those gils on) where you're at a clear competitive advantage by having additionnal retainers.

[Vstarstruck]

Turns out it was speculation based on those screens(I hadn't really read them before, but on closer inspection it doesn't say we can buy the coins/nuts).

Are you BLIND??!?!?!

https://i.gyazo.com/28c4f176c861d610...23df6514cd.png

moogle COINS, the app IRL money currency.
https://gyazo.com/0d39b2105bff95ad3ee520582743d684

So with moogle COINS (the thing that is not the log in bonus currency) lets you list/ price change/ and buy off the MB

Moogle NUT, the log in bonus only lets you BUY something off the mb:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...4_04.26.40.png
That means in order to price change and to sell something, it is only available with the transaction currency and the only reason it is listed for "free" (my guessing anyway) is because you can buy the currency without the sub.

This app is P2W, no matter the how small the impact it makes to "PvE" or "PvE" it is still P2W, you are paying IRL money for an advantage over someone that does not.

stop nitpicking what "win" means. It is not speculation, right there on the damn slides.

P2W elements have been here a while, yup. People tend to rationalize them away because they don't like the term being applied to their game, but it's arleady here by the standard definition. That doesn't mean we want more of it.

yup, it was largely ignored because it is not a big deal (helps that no one fully exploit it to my knowledge)now you are enabling FULL market control, because of the sheer number of retainers and quick access to price changes with this P2W app. It is the app though that crossed the line and made it worth noting, stop with increasing p2w elements.

[Raiffiel]

I don't worry about pay to win. I'm winning all the time. Over here, over there, winning. I have tigers blood in my veins.

[Reynhart]

Are you BLIND??!?!?!
https://i.gyazo.com/28c4f176c861d610...23df6514cd.png
moogle COINS, the app IRL money currency.
https://gyazo.com/0d39b2105bff95ad3ee520582743d684
So with moogle COINS (the thing that is not the log in bonus currency) lets you list/ price change/ and buy off the MB

You do realize that no screen you quote says anything about buying moogle coins, which was the question in the first place, right ?

[Vstarstruck]

You do realize that no screen you quote says anything aboutbuying moogle coins, which was the question in the first place, right ?

Wtf do you think "app currency means"? and the fact there is no direct explanation how get them? please.. think for once... i know it is hard...
nuts are the log in bonus, not the COINS.

The only reason it was listed as "free" earlier is because it points to the idea the microtransaction paying IRL money for the coins is not blocked behind the app sub fee.

[Istaru]

That's something I can't answer on, because I don't even know what the gil could possibly be used on to make it pay to win. So I will ask you the same question, if it wasn't pvp or pve focus in this game, would gil be pay to win and if so, explain to me how the system would work then also explain how the gil would get you more win.

An apology first, most of what you asked for is tied up in emotion from me. As such, it is a bit long.

For me, most of my enjoyment from this game is from crafting and selling stuff. I can’t tell you the last time I even ran a dungeon. My goal isn’t to clear savage or ultimate, it’s crafting and making some money from that.

People with more retainers have more access to retainer goods than someone without them. At the start of SB, Manzasiri Hair and Halgsi Mane were needed for many items and were not well stocked since they were monster drops. Crafting anything using those was very expensive and only possible in very limited quantities. As an example, to make just 1 of each item that used them, you would need about 350 of each. That quantity was simply unavailable, you couldn’t buy it with all the money. Someone could get like 5-7 of them from their retainers per hour. A person with 8 retainers could get like 20-28 of each per hour versus 5-7 of each per hour with 2 retainers. If your only goal is to make items and sell them, having the ability to make and sell things quicker is a huge advantage, you beat the undercutting rush and saturation that comes later. People with more retainers can sell more items since they have more slots open to sell things. If you craft a lot, it’s very easy to fill 2 retainers and then you are stuck until something sells.

An enhanced ability to undercut all day, every day is an advantage from the Moogle coins. When new crafted gear is released in a patch, it is a race to the bottom. If someone has the app and wants to spend the money, they can control a segment of the marketboard and make it significantly harder to compete. Yes, selling stuff on the marketplace can be a competition of sorts. Yes, people can do this now, but it is a bit limited. This cannot be controlled by anyone and everyone during the day when many people are at work or school or whatever. That changes with the app. We now have 100% access to 100% of the marketboard 100% of the time. But only if we pay SE extra.

If I can’t sell the things I make, Or I have to sell at a significant loss, my enjoyment, my winning per se, is damaged. If I cannot do what I enjoy, I would probably have to leave the game at that point because my enjoyment has been put out of my reach unless I do the same as the people with the app. They get more materials than I do from their retainers and they can manipulate market prices much more than I can. They have won on the ability to make and sell things that I may want to participate in.


I’m sure you or others or many people will find some semantic or nuance or whatever to pick me apart with. Go for it.

End of the day, this has the ability to affect me in ways that I don’t want. It may not affect you at all, and that’s ok.

[Istaru]

I'm omnicrafter before doing any PVE. I'm clearly P2W.

What was your point in this?