Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Zephanoa]

Going to echo with the chamber. There is nothing about the market board that is pay to win. People tend to confuse the term quite a bit. Paying to win is essentially making a function of the game easier by providing items to make content easier and while some items of the market board are bis for some classes it doesn't give them any kind of actual advantage. In fact with over melds its even more of a pain in the ass.

[ErryK]

Level all your jobs with pots? That just straight up told people that the amount of time you invested in these jobs was a waste. Weeks or Months of your time, into the rubbish bin. That's how you know those are P2W.

No, it actually let's me know that I saved $325 when I could've spent that on jump potions and gone the "P2W" route... of which you don't really win anything. You're just 10 levels behind everyone else.

[Vstarstruck]

Going to echo with the chamber. There is nothing about the market board that is pay to win. People tend to confuse the term quite a bit. Paying to win is essentially making a function of the game easier by providing items to make content easier and while some items of the market board are bis for some classes it doesn't give them any kind of actual advantage. In fact with over melds its even more of a pain in the ass.

The only one confused what it means to pay to win is you. You are paying for an advantage to make more gil, that is an advantage, thus pay to win.

[Rinuko]

The only one confused what it means to pay to win is you. You are paying for an advantage to make more gil, that is an advantage, thus pay to win.

No it isn't. P2W is giving a gameplay advantage. Me having more gil than you isnt giving me an advantage overall in gameplay.

[Starflake]

No it isn't. P2W is giving a gameplay advantage. Me having more gil than you isnt giving me an advantage overall in gameplay.

Isn't simply making gil inherently gameplay? Does this mean that we should legitimize the buying of gil for real money as it offers no advantages in gameplay? What about the release of craftable gear and the ability to buy it and pentameld it? That's not an advantage? Doing so on multiple classes giving more flexibility etc.

[Reynhart]

Does this mean that we should legitimize the buying of gil for real money as it offers no advantages in gameplay? What about the release of craftable gear and the ability to buy it and pentameld it? That's not an advantage? Doing so on multiple classes giving more flexibility etc.

If you spend more time in the game to earn more gils, like the time to craft things and sell them, or the time to earn venture token and spend them, or the time to gather materials and send them, it's expected you'll get more gils. Buying gils is something that's outside of "playing the game". Again, retainers don't create gils by themselves.

I have a question though. We already have two types of accounts that don't give access to the same number of retainers, we already have buyable additionnal retainers...Can you give me one situation where it has actually hindered your progression by putting you in a competitive disadvantage ?

Or, can you actually tell how many retainers someone has based on his progression in gear, minions, mounts, achievements, PvP ranking or anything else, including housing ?

[Derio]

Unless these retainers are actually giving out mounts, HQ food, or weapons and gear. I dont see how its pay 2 win.

Is it a slippery slope to other things yes. But its not pay to win.

[AlphaSonic]

No it isn't. P2W is giving a gameplay advantage. Me having more gil than you isnt giving me an advantage overall in gameplay.

Paying gil for clears.

[Avatre]

Paying gil for clears.

Has nothing to do with SE as a whole unless they change the ToS to where you cannot to that. The gil is 100% generated in game, and unless there was a RMT involved with getting the gil, has no bearing on that particular situation.

Someone buying additional retainers with their sub still has to deal with the EXACT same factor as someone who does not: the market. The people buying the items from the market board ultimately decide what price is going to be paid, not the sellers. Some people have gil in the hundreds of millions(if not more), while others have under 1m. Does that mean those who have the hundreds of millions p2w to have that? No, it means they crafted/gathered stuff that sells(some probably have a bot or twenty running around getting the stuff for them to sell, but that's a discussion for somewhere else), or they have been playing that long that they don't feel the need to spend their gil on stuff/can make their own.

[Remedi]

it's also ignoring the more shady way to get clears