Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Avenger]

I could say the same for botters.

Retainers are indeed like gathering and hunting bots that are permitted by SE.

Although they can’t gather crystals or spiritbond gear, they can bring dyes, minions, and gear, in addition to regular crafting materials.

[XenoCranel]

I think the level cap (35?) of the free trial should be considered pay to progress rather than pay to win.

Eh, that's very negligible if we're trying to stay on topic with the app.

[Alucard135]

eh the game has and will always be pay2win i mean you can't even log in without paying so i have an advantage over anyone who doesn't anyways.

Not just that, you have to pay for your ISP to have internet access. It's a clear advantage against those without internet.

[Zojha]

eh the game has and will always be pay2win i mean you can't even log in without paying so i have an advantage over anyone who doesn't anyways.

Well it's Pay to Play.

You can neither win, nor lose a game if you don't play it in the first place. But if you can win by playing, that also means you can lose by playing, which makes this game Pay to Lose as well.

#RandomThings

[Remedi]

There's a minor problem.

The app is not exactly pay2win it's more of a paywall to a QOL that we should've given (and frankly was a missed opportunity for them to make so we could increase the space of the saddle ourselves with more bags on it)

The difference is important because they'll probably use that by telling us they are not selling power to the players (albeit you can consider space power in a sense, but it's extremely easy to work around this notion) while saying that they are paywalling much needed commodity is something that is not so easy rebutted.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Gil does allow you to buy gear, which is BiS for crafters and gatherer's and gives you a way to quickly gear up alt classes.
It's not pay to win but making it easier to obtain gil is hardly an insignificant advantage over other players.

Which is a pay for convenience. No one is denying the advantages extra retainers can have for playing the market. It does not necessarily constitute a winning state. For example sake, let's look to Archeage. If you wanted to actively participate in PvP, you were required to pay upwards of $1,000 to not get stomped into oblivion by those who did. Likewise, in Star Wars: Battlefront, you either faced a grind totally 4,000 hours or a cost well exceeding $1,500. Those are pay to win examples due to the near impossibility at which players can remain competitive without shelling out real money. I can still play the market, and make a sizable profit in FFXIV. Will it be more difficult? Sure, but I can still do so. Frankly, far more of a hindrance are botters who can gather and produce items at an endless frequency. Being able to list 200 items on a single character pales in comparison.

snip

As noted above, Pay to Win is where you cannot win without paying additional money. Or the alternative grind has unreal expectations. This is rather difficult to achieve in a theme park MMO due to have someone else's progress often has little impact on your own. That being said, if you could say... buy your way to Platinum in PvP. You effectively bypass a grind numerous other players cannot overcome—similar to the Star Wars example. You not caring about PvP does not change that.

Duelboxing is not technically against the ToS, provided you are not using a bot to control the second account. Therefore, you cannot cite it as an example of Pay to Win. If we stretch Pay to Win into that broad a terminology, simply having alt characters to bypass loot restrictions could arguably qualify. And what about housing? A friend of mine maintains two active subscription to own multiple houses, which allows multiple Airships and retainers should they choose. Your definition of Pay to Win is far too broad. If simply using IRL money for an advantage qualifies, then virtually every game on the market has some form of pay to win. At which point, the term ceases to have real impact.

[ElazulHP]

I would honestly rather SE increases overall sub fees over doing nickle and dime microtransactions. If I wanted to play a F2P game model I wouldn't be playing this game. One of the reason I play this game is to AVOID all that BS. Games like BDO have extremely cancerous cash shops and where this game is heading now is on the slippery slope to the same system. SE needs to do one of these IMO: (A) Up subscription fees in order to fund whatever they're trying to fund, (B) Go F2P or Buy to Play and just go all in on the garbage that goes along with those models, or (C) Lose subs from people like me who absolutely HATE f2p mmo systems and microtransactions. You absolutely can't half ass it or have it both ways or you're going to lose subs no matter what.

[Vstarstruck]

As noted above, Pay to Win is where you cannot win without paying additional money.

flat out wrong. Maybe that is your personal view what pay to win means, that is notthe factual definition.

In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Some critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" or "p2w" games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.[34] For example, games—such as Dota 2, League of Legends, and Maplestory—only allow the purchase of cosmetic items, meaning that a "free-to-play player" will be on the same level as a player who has spent money on the game.

Buying extra retainers and whaling on this app for price changes is a significant advantage to sell things vs normal sub user, hence fitting pay to win, right in the definition. Even if we take solo account comparison, it is 400 slots of quick (note the use of quick here, this means not having to log off) sales vs 40, that is P2W.

then going to extremes this app can significantly help someone to completely control the MB, they really do not see the issue here? Are they hoping someone will whale this and spam undercut and buying out for market control?

[Remedi]

Yes, but we are often say how gils are effectively worthless and tbh the focus of the game is combat, not to mention that nothing stops you from modifying the prices while gaming.
Though that link having Lol has a source of good microtransations makes me shiver

Anyway the app giving extra inventory space and all the rest for a price is more like a paywall than a direct p2w which is infuriating nonetheless.
Remember our words can also be used against us if we are not clear in our cases

[Metalwrath]

I advise you stop making a fool of yourself.What you are talking about is in no way pay to win.
Even if people can get easier cash from these services the use of gil in game is limited anyway.What can you buy with it honestly ?A house.There are restrictions with houseing so gil is irrelevant most of the time in that equation.Some extra stats from crafted gear?The current crafted gear is equal to eureka gear which is quite easy to grind.With the exception of accs of course which can be bought or crafted easily enough currently.Materia for melds?Well you get tonnes now from hunts and Eureka.Buying them isnt needed.
The new services will in no way affect actual gameplay and you know this.
You're just ranting out of spite because they are selling needless services you dont want to pay for.