Most Sought-after DPS class?

[Makeda]

DRG (heavily needed for phys range dps)

Range? Admittedly I've only played Lancer (Dragoon) to level 21... but I'd swear I've never seen a ranged one.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Range? Admittedly I've only played Lancer (Dragoon) to level 21... but I'd swear I've never seen a ranged one.

He meant Bard and Machinist, which are physical range jobs. Dragoon buffs both of their damage, especially Bard, through Disembowel and Battle Litany. Without a Dragoon, Bard and Machinist can drop anywhere from 300 to 500 DPS. Hence why Dragoon is among the most sought after jobs.

[Makeda]

O.o

So I'm not fully wrong in noticing how bad Bard DPS is. In leveling content I keep falling below healers... Which makes me wonder if the boost Bard gives to others is enough to offset it's own score.

I mean I assume I'm bad at it at present... but it's not 100% just me I guess... maybe 93%...

Kinda wish I hadn't installed a DPS overlay... I felt pretty 'amazing' playing my Bard until I saw the numbers... Now I wonder if the jobis even worth using outside of a raid.

[Makeda]

Alright everybody can ignore my sidetrack about Bard DPS. I figured my stuff out...

Since I liked the 'playstyle' of both Bard and Red Mage about equally but was getting such horrible results with Red Mage despite following Bard guides as well as I thought I could... but basically just 'rolling my face over the keyboard' on Red Mage... I'd figured Bard was not for me...

But I forced myself to spend a few days working on Bard, running Palace of the Dead as if I was in a raid, and not the usual spamfest people do in there... and after the first day I started seeing my results spike up a lot.

So yeah...

Sorted out my stuff... Ignore my anti-bard rants.

[Kabooa]

Take what people say with a grain of salt. Excelling at DPS on any job, even tanks and Healers, is a matter of theory and putting theory to practice. If it seems like you're low relative to your gear and others, then, no offense meant, you still have some to learn.

Samurai might be 'easiest' to see results with, but it just has a high baseline compared to other jobs, and requires as much optimization to hit magic "Take me I'm awesome" numbers. It is also possible that certain playstyles just don't mesh well with you.

DPS generally fall into Set Rotation and Priority Rotation.

Set Rotation is a strict ABC set up and generally is where Melee are. (Dragoons, Samurai, Paladin, arguably Monk, mostly Ninja outside Ninki expenditure)

Priority Rotations are about competing ability choices for any given moment, and generally involve making use of Procs. (Bards, Black Mages, some of Red Mage)

[Makeda]

Yeah but... I think the concern to find a highly sought after DPS is pretty valid...

I've been locked out of raiding across several MMOS for the past couple of years because... oddly... I generally only play tanks. And it turns out tank is the LEAST sought after role... because it is the most... as in... people fill their roster by getting tanks first. And they go to their friends, their FC leadership, or themselves (tanks tend to be running the raid). If you're a tank out there shopping for a group... chances are they already filled your spot before they made their recruiting public. Over in WoW I kept finding they'd filled to spot 10+ years ago...

(It is the reverse of the dynamic in dungeons)

I see this also with DPS in various raids... if you're on a class or job that is saturated (more people play it than the current meta needs), you only get to raid if you have a buddy who is a raid leader... or you have the charisma to start one and get people to join you. That said... DPS have an easier time getting into a raid than tanks - because more of them are needed and the competing players often include a lot of people who will fade away over time - spots open up. If a raid loses a DPS they replace it. If a raid loses a tank the entire group often breaks up before I can find it and apply...

(That's kind of why I'm working on my DPS now here... but posting with my tank because the DPS are not yet leveled)

So... people's specific advice about playstyle is one thing... but if the community has a consensus that 'nobody needs any more X, but we need a lot more Y' - that's advice worth taking.

Nothing is worse than spending months getting all ready, and then finding you can't get a spot anywhere because your niche is already filled...

[Maero]

While true about Red Mage being at the "lower end" dps wise most players do not know how to play their class properly anyhow so chances of a Red Mage being better then other casters is always possible, lol
The content is clearable in any job really even the ones with little to so support (Sam, Red Mage, etc..)

Also running Bard (or any job for that matter) in Palace of the Dead is no way at all a good indicator on how it can perform.
Stone, Sky and Sea would be a better option even

[zuzu-bq]

BLM can do simmilar or more RDPS contribuition as a SMN on a fully single target encounter. So in the end if you're running a caster either is fine really. RDM is a good really pick for pick up groups.

If you want a DPS that is always good that'd literally be DRG or NIN. No matter what, they'll be strong.

[Makeda]

Also running Bard (or any job for that matter) in Palace of the Dead is no way at all a good indicator on how it can perform.
Stone, Sky and Sea would be a better option even

I partially agree. I did pull back from my criticism of Bard after figuring out what was off in my use of my abilities. I went from bottom of the pack to near or often top of it after adjusting and finally learning the 'muscle memory' of my chosen Bard keybind setup...

But if I were to compare between Palace of the Dead and Stone, Sky, Sea... I would definitely put Palace of the Dead ahead. The mobs hit back, and they move. So you're not just testing an 'ideal' rotation... you're also testing your ability to play the job and role as a whole;

1. Can you be aware of your surroundings when doing that rotation (most platform DPS and nearly all healers fail at this... with moves like pulling agro from a pat coming from behind. or walking into a trap or fire, and so on... frankly many tanks fail at it too. If you EVER see a tank being attacked from behind, that's an example of failure here. As a 12 year tank main - I go nuts when I see this happening to any other tank... silently, but my eyes are rolling anyway),
2. can you learn to kite something to your team when you're out-matched,
3. can you keep to your priority list when under panic, or are you a player that starts mashing buttons and speeds up their own character's doom - this is a stress test when learning a new job/class...
4. For a class with support abilities like Bard, can you apply them to other people as needed.
5. For a class with positional requirements, can you get to rear and flank when that other person who has aggro REFUSES to stand still - this is a major issue I'm sure any melee DPS player can relate to. And many of them cannot do it. There are times as a tank where I have intentionally moved mobs around just to see if my melee was actually 'aware of what game they were playing'... Not often of course - but sometimes you get that feeling that that DRG or NJN over there is paying more attention to Netflix than the boss... (In another MMO when I did this I caught an AFK healer by noticing 'somebody' had put me on 'auto-follow' when their movements started matching me even to the point of walking that healer into the fire...).



Palace of the dead is by no means a proper dungeon environment... but at least it is testing 'while under fire' and not letting you get away with smooth perfection.

Target Dummies have only one place: learning your actual rotation / priority list. Basically teaching you to go from 'looking at the buttons while glancing at a guide on another window' to 'smooth muscle memory'.
- They can't tell you anything else of value.

[Maero]

Well top of the pack is subjective, lol
End Game is where real damage matters and that is why many use Stone, Sky and Sea because you need certain amount of damage to meet a dps check and maybe improve your rotation.
Dodging is only part of the equation, if someones rotation is awful well..
Palace while yes does give you live targets, things usually die too fast for one to actually learn proper rotations. It does give players some sort of an idea though.

In no way am i knocking down Palace as myself i used to enjoy it with friends and we almost made it to floor 200 back when it was first introduced
but alas one of the dps killed us all and we never went back, haha

Thinking about it i think if Eureka gave you actual levelling exp it would be great learning ground as well
Again we both have our own opinions and views so i was not knocking you down