Idea to fix controversy about healer dps.

[EaMett]

I think you're citing point 1 as a rebuttal? Not really sure if you're making a rebuttal at all or just stating what drives you into playing conservatively with your mana.
Also the part about healers not having time for enmity was sarcasm. Maybe it wasn't obvious but I did state right before that lucid was a good tool. Logic being that it shouldn't be an issue if you're keeping an eye out for it.

[kidalutz]

This is singularly the dumbest idea I ever heard come out of someone's headmeat. Leave the damn system alone period and trust the healer to do what they're comfortable with and what fits the party they got. You want a healer to DPS all the time make a static. let them get used to your playstyle so they know the limits and strengths and weaknesses of the people they're with. This is the only 100% guarantee that you'll get that. Why, because then your healer will be able to know what's coming up and happening. In a PuG don't expect it because the healer has a hundred different things to keep up on including determining if the so called tank is going to run out LoS and die before they can pop a heal off or if that ranged dps is going to agro the wrong add and if they heal said dps will said tank pull agro off of healer. the list goes on. Think of others before you open your yap to "fix" things. and to whomever said healer dps shaves ten minutes off a run. you're wrong five max .

[MoroMurasaki]

This is singularly the dumbest idea

Please, tell me about the other 97 things that are going on.

Show me your statistics on how healer dps can shave only a maximum of 5 minutes off a run.

Back up anything that has spewed from your "yap" or be prepared for no one to take you any more seriously than a salty little internet troll with some subpar "headmeat".

[OcieKo]

I think you're citing point 1 as a rebuttal? Not really sure if you're making a rebuttal at all or just stating what drives you into playing conservatively with your mana.
Also the part about healers not having time for enmity was sarcasm. Maybe it wasn't obvious but I did state right before that lucid was a good tool. Logic being that it shouldn't be an issue if you're keeping an eye out for it.

Your point 1 was your having mana management issues. Which knowing that ahead of time is situational and generally an issue with the player themselves, i.e. undergeared, new to _____ healer job, etc. The rest of the time you find it out later in the encounter. If you know it ahead of time, I agree your theory stands up even in this game. But if you follow your theory and something goes wrong down the line and you have issues, part of the problem was your choice to play like those possibilities wouldnt happen, which in the case of a at least partial premades is a reasonable mistake to make, but for majority pugging, its asking for it. I was raised of the mind to work from the worst possible scenarios so what your process is works regardless, then remove unneccessary precautions as their threat passes. Most of the time since WOD til now most of my 8/24 man content I did with a consitent co-healer which allowed me to do a lot of things I'd generally consider bad for a healer to do, if I knew a tank and a DPS or two even moreso. But if we're talking the initial gameplan, brown matter meet ceiling fan.

Your point whether I took it as sarcastic or not (I didn't take it as sarcastic for the record) only covered the healer's own enmity in the seemingly accidental case. But the only enmity we can track visually is our own, learning to track the rest of the groups in spurts isn't done with the UI as is. Part of that is learning player behavior on an individual basis, which is often done while the run is going on. With premade components, this is known ahead of time. My normal co-healer knows if I'm playing DPS I'll likely beat the off-tank to the add and start doing their job until they catch up, whether that be group up or split, but with randoms its figured out later. The general enmity part though is mostly just instinctive and honed through practice and experience. I'm sure plenty of primarily healers have that sneaking suspicion before DPS pull aggro in certain situations that they're going to need heals.

[kidalutz]

Back up anything that has spewed from your "yap" or be prepared for no one to take you any more seriously than a salty little internet troll with some subpar "headmeat".

Was going to give a full response then I lost the GAF. *shrug*

[MoroMurasaki]

Was going to give a full response then I lost the GAF. *shrug*

No worries, it's probably for the best

[EaMett]

snip.

Point 1 is in regards to the entirety of the encounter (from start to finish). It wasn't meant as a rule to use up all your mana until you run into mana issues (even though in practice, on WHM especially this can actually work.. But yeah not intended that way).

I'm not sure I understand what you mean in the enmity section. I was only making reference to the healer's own enmity as not being much of a factor in picking lower potency skills. Also, it is possible to monitor everyone's enmity visually via the party icon gauges (though this breaks down in multi add pulls where you need to trust your tank to keep track of his own aggro).
I'm also not perfectly clear on how this factors into the overhealing conversation.

[OcieKo]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean in the enmity section. I was only making reference to the healer's own enmity as not being much of a factor in picking lower potency skills. Also, it is possible to monitor everyone's enmity visually via the party icon gauges (though this breaks down in multi add pulls where you need to trust your tank to keep track of his own aggro).
I'm also not perfectly clear on how this factors into the overhealing conversation.

Keep in mind the point of this thread is things related to the "healer must dps" mindset being prevalent, I brought up overhealing as a factor that people tend to go crazy on as a means of making less GCDs go to healing, whether its done in a productive way or not. Overusing GCDs, overhealing, and losing MP efficiency are things that a healer can do improperly while reacting to situations.
In the case of the party UI enmity bars, it requires your primary target to be an enemy, depending on how your control setup is, that part of the enmity displays is inactive when your using single target heals. And as you mentioned its also only single target. The enmity UI generally defaults to the boss enmity if not targeting something. And non-tank enmity is a pretty common place for overhealing, gcd waste, and mp waste for a multitude of reasons.

[Tridus]

This is singularly the dumbest idea I ever heard come out of someone's headmeat. Leave the damn system alone period and trust the tank to do what they're comfortable with and what fits the party they got. You want a tank to DPS all the time make a static. let them get used to your playstyle so they know the limits and strengths and weaknesses of the people they're with. This is the only 100% guarantee that you'll get that. Why, because then your tank will be able to know what's coming up and happening. In a PuG don't expect it because the tank has a hundred different things to keep up on including determining if the so called healer is going to keep watching Netflix and die before they can pop a heal off or if that ranged dps is going to agro the wrong add and if they heal said dps will they run away from the tank trying to get aggro. the list goes on. Think of others before you open your yap to "fix" things.

FTFY. Odd how I can swap one word and make it sound all the more ridiculous.

and to whomever said healer dps shaves ten minutes off a run. you're wrong five max .

No they're not. Trash packs melt a whole lot faster with piles of Holy spam.

[RopeDrink]

All the little factors add up/slow down -- be it a pure healer, a tank only willing (or capable) of standard pulls, bare-minimum DPS etc, and of course, any delays outside of the trinity (BRB, TOILET, PIZZA, WHATEVS) -- all of which can result in anything of up to 30minutes extra. A good DPS Healer, be it Holy spam or just DPS'ing when no Healing is required, can shave off a hella lot of time (with its own variables of course).

As far as casual content is concerned, having spent the last few days levelling NIN (to which I've met many a pure-healer and AFK-healer, more than I'm comfortable with in such a short space of time), versus the wealth of times I get them during roulette tome-grinds on WHM, these moments drag... And drag... And drag some more.