Request: Please give us alternate ways to obtain PVP armour and weapons

[Aviars]

Except both sources are not measured equally. Extreme Primal and Savage mounts become increasingly easier as time goes whereas top 100 doesn't.

Irrelevant. Top 100 was meant to be exclusive to just the top 100 players of a datacenter, as explicitly stated by SE. Extreme Primal and Savage mounts were not. They are not the same. Stop trying to act like everything is and should be the same.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Top 100 does become a less strict achievement as time passes. Top 100 rewards are released for 2 seasons in a row. The second season always has a lower top 100 rating minimum to achieve than the first. Whether SE should artificially lower the difficulty bar or just let it organically occur would just be an argument of just how much easier you would want the achievement to be.

I can solo Titan Extreme on a Samurai. That is how easy he has become four years later. At no point, ever, will the Top 100 be that easy. Now that isn't to say I want it to be, but the consistency between rewards simply isn't there.

Irrelevant. Top 100 was meant to be exclusive to just the top 100 players of a datacenter, as explicitly stated by SE. Extreme Primal and Savage mounts were not. They are not the same. Stop trying to act like everything is and should be the same.

No. The mount reward was intended to incentive queues. Regardless, why should your preferred mode get exclusive rewards when nothing else does? They even stopped exclusive minions with merchandise upon frequent complaints. You simply want to keep your exclusivity. That's all there is to it.

[Stormfur]

Here's something else that was explicitly stated by SE:

https://imgur.com/a/lsHgc

Your exclusive in-game item code! The exclusive Moogle attire in-game item!

The same attire that is up on the Mog Station now, three years later! Exclusive doesn't mean exclusive for life... It means exclusive until they decide to make it otherwise.

[Awha]

That loss is objective but the value proposition is still subjective. While in your view it may be the better option it still does not make the request put forward for a different means of obtaining the rewards moot or wrong like some have claimed. People are making a request and have presented their reasoning for why they feel a change should be made. No side should attack the other for their position since value propostions clearly differ and people also have different reasons for wanting the change. That is what I do not get people can be in disagreement and say a change is not needed which is fair but why is it some feel the need to say one side is wrong simply because they are in disagreement. Hope that makes sense.

[Mantrus]

@awha:

If we are comparing the value added from opening reward availability to the value lost from losing exclusivity, then yes neither side is necessarily wrong and it's just a matter of opinion and judgment, which is up to SE. This is different from what we were discussing earlier though. I think what my problem in all of this is that the differing view of "owner determines value" was used earlier in this thread not as an alternate perspective but as a way to invalidate how other players evaluate the rewards:

"You should accept that end of the day deep down you are the only person that can ever devalue what your top 100 reward represents. Just because Joe 1234 has the same mount as you does not mean to you personally that mount should have any less personal value to you."

This isn't suggesting people valuate with different perspective. It's pushing that perspective as how everyone valuates things, in order to invalidate a way players valuate rewards. This is what I'm pushing against as objectively incorrect.

@Bourne_endeavor:

How easy SE balances past content doesn't have a consistency to it overall. Savage Coil, Alexander, and soon ultimate challenges are balanced after their life cycle on a case by case basis for the most part. After that, they just forget about the content. We don't know if they intend for content to get as easy as 2.x EX primals from ilevel increases or if they just don't care about past PvE content difficulty. If they don't care, then past PvE balance is just a coincidence and they don't care about making rewards more accessible over time to a limitless extent. So the standard doesn't have to be upheld.

@stormfur:

What about the possibility of rereleasing the rewards will still the top 100 achievement tied to it? I know not everyone here is arguing for that, but you haven't addressed this possibility.

[Awha]

My comment was used as a means to show the difference of how players value something since from my perspective the reason behind keeping items exclusive is based off the value proposition that the rarity is the value marker that was placed on the reward which is fair. However from my point of view it does not logical make sense to claim that the reason for an item to remain exclusive because other wise it inherently detracts from the mark and measure that the reward represents. Aka value of something is based off the rarity of and if it becomes common it no longer is a valid marker of success. Which logically does not follow in my eye. Have I have explained why it does not follow for me using the degree example yet it was shot down.

[Aviars]

No. The mount reward was intended to incentive queues. Regardless, why should your preferred mode get exclusive rewards when nothing else does? They even stopped exclusive minions with merchandise upon frequent complaints. You simply want to keep your exclusivity. That's all there is to it.

Just because you say "no, it's actually this" doesn't make it true. SE has made it clear that they want Feast to be a competition and top 100 rewards are meant to foster that sentiment.

Regardless though, you have been getting plenty of examples of "exclusive" items that aren't available to the regular public. And as of right now, Ultimate Coil as it stands seems to be kept level synced forever, which surprise surprise is SE changing the way they do things. I can also list the title like necromancer which only a very few people have been able to achieve, and SE doesn't seem to making moves to make it so the unworthy can achieve it.

Just accept you are wrong

Edit: You should also stop making the claim that SE should never try to innovate and change how they operate their game. You are basically like this "doing things differently is WRONG, it should NEVER change cause it's the way it's ALWAYS been..... I don't want to game to change even if it's a improvement!!!"

[Awha]

Since way I see the only reason for a reward to remain exclusive is simply to have the item to retain that subjective value propostions just as I am trying to defend that rewards should be made obtainable by as players possible due to waste of man hours that went making the item, and that if the item is meant to be a a mark / measure of an achievement how common it from my pov has no objective reason why it would make what the reward represents any less meaningful. They are differing views and realisticly should one equate the effort and skill that went into earning say a degree any less due to how common. The degree may be. That is where I am coming from it is a differing view and to be frank that comment was made towards Ava since that is how they made it sound as if one should not be proud of what they have earned due to how common it is and that because is how I view things I do not understanding the meaning of hard work. Which is them pushing their value proposition on me.

[Stormfur]

@awha:

@stormfur:

What about the possibility of rereleasing the rewards will still the top 100 achievement tied to it? I know not everyone here is arguing for that, but you haven't addressed this possibility.

As long as they made rewards from the top 100 account wide, so that you wouldn't have the scenario of 20 really good players and 80 alts, I'd be okay with that.

I'd also be okay with a altered skin of the Hellhound to make it different than previous season's winners so that everyone has something tying their efforts to that particular season or the type of PVP they prefer. Kind of like how the GARO horses are reskins of the same model but available for winning in Feast / Frontlines respectively.

[Stormfur]

And as of right now, Ultimate Coil as it stands seems to be kept level synced forever.... I can also list the title like necromancer which only a very few people have been able to achieve, and SE doesn't seem to making moves to make it so the unworthy can achieve it.

Those are exclusive rewards, but not seasonal/timed. I don't have a problem with either of those things by themselves. I have a problem with rewards that are both -- as in ONLY the first 100 players in the world to clear Ultimate Coil get a reward or ONLY the first 100 people to clear POTD get the title.

You can't just say "well, try harder", but effort -- like the value placed on rewards -- is subjective.

I'm playing the entire game with limited vision. That means I have to work very, very hard to scan the arena and react / learn the mechanics of the boss fight / etc. with limited depth perception and field of view. Does the effort that i put into it, even if I fall behind, simply mean I didn't want it bad enough?

I don't say this as an excuse -- I say it to present the reason why "just try harder" isn't the solution to everything. I do try, and am trying, and will continue to try. I might never make it to the top 100...or I might make it next season. Who knows? But who's to say I don't want it bad enough or don't want to try?